Brendan - the White Devil - Speaks
This is a post written to Kerry Delf, ex-ToS defender, current ToS attacker. She is the wife of Craig Hunt, "Mr. Scratch" also former ToS defender and now ex ToS attacker.
It explains all.
From: "Proletariat" <proletariat...@red.comrades>
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: FALSE MEMORY STUDIES UPDATE
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:09:04 -0400
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Reply-To: "Proletariat" <proletar...@red.comrades>
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Kerry. Just a moment. I just noticed this and felt the need to clarify a few pertinent points regarding reality and your skewed perception of it [regarding]. "Tani and her friends." "Tani's people."
Tani *knew* me and my mother. *I* knew the White Devil Gang - a group of kids, myself included at the time. Tani knew only a very few of these people. The entire rest of the flamers were COS members, some only vaguely known via snail mail, some not known at all, to Tani; some still in the COS, others long gone having washed their hands of it.
Tani was not online.
As the person responsible for rarely printing out this garbage from both the COS and the TOS side and showing it to Tani, I can absolutely state that very little of it was shown to her. I can state that many of us posted in her name. I can state, and it was admitted to, that one of the girls in the gang claimed to *be* Tani. After all, Tani gave the go ahead and thought the posts would be like "Dark Force" posts, or "Light Forces," which Phil posted [wrote out to be posted]. She really had no clue about what the Internet was like except for the flaming rants that were shown to her by Peggy Nadramia, mostly rants by Kevin Filan against the TOS and Michael Aquino's mother.
This *style* of vicious flame became "the norm" for Pro-COS attacks against the TOS. The style had no semblance of debate or even explanation as *did* the original posts Tani [wrote, that got posted] made, which can be seen by all on HrVad's website. [They are still up there].
All of this, and I will repeat *all* of this, was asked for by, urged on by, cheered on by, Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia that called for an all out holy war against the TOS and its members and a "setting fire to" the newsgroup alt.satanism.
I admit I had a royal laugh-and-a-half doing it, as did my teenage friends. But the COS members involved in it were fighting the "good fight" for the "holy cause;" in short, they were, defending the "holy name of LaVey" against the "evil Mikey." That was, in fact, the whole mentality.
Hr.Vad even bragged about Phil and Tani's title in the COS: something entirely against the wishes of Tani and Phil when they finally got to see it (early 2000). Of course, they had no way to *see* all of this [at the time it was going on] and this convenient fact was known to everyone that knew Tani or Phil. You may as well expect a cat to understand television: that was Tani's understanding of computers and the world wide web. Zero. Not even a hint. She had no desire to know it or have it, at the time. She'd not even *be* online had Ole Wolf not *given* her a computer and then Ole and I instruct her on important things like how to turn it on, how to shut it off properly and other beyond basic things. I have to say, she learns damned fast.
Now, I seem to clearly recall you doing something that would cause me to think you are crazy. You took a theory posted from an article, "Another View of Christianity" about 666 in the Book of Revelation, a theory you saw only when it was *misrepresented* by Adam Wilson of the COS. You were told it was stated wrongly. Yet you insisted on putting the misstatements into Tani's mouth. [The actual article is up for anyone to see in the 666 section of Sr website]
I can assume you were exactly like this in the TOS and only now are you discovering that more than a few TOS members disliked you. You can call them "Schrecksters" or lap dogs all you want: what were *you*? Over the issue of religious theories, you so involved yourself in a mere theory, a misstated one by Adam Wilson, that you wrote to the National Institutes of Health and other such scientific institutions and tried to warn them about *Tani*. Are you insane? You did this because the theory presented in the article is unusual? You did this, Kerry. Don't even try to deny it. I personally told you that Adam Wilson misstated it. I told you where to read the actual article. Yet you did this.
I am the person that Craig Hunt was trying to debate with. Not Tani. She never saw any of that *irrelevant* garbage. I never printed it out for her. She wouldn't have cared anyway. She didn't care. That's the point. Gilmore/Nadramia cared, they asked for it, urged it on and cheered it every step of the way. Aside from that, Craig now admits that for all those 10 years he was doing nothing except pushing the views of Big Brother in a 1984 type organization [the ToS]. Then perhaps it is good that we all regarded it all as irrelevant and flamed it.
When Tani finally did see some of it [printed out], she put a fast end to it because she took the threats from *both sides* very seriously. She went to the law against everyone involved, myself included, and in so doing had to tell them who *she* was.
The next thing that happened was the s-list was formed out of the most radically pro COS people online, the shock troops, the storm troopers. I was on it in the beginning but, I'm not a member of the COS. I don't even like the COS. I didn't like these people and so I bowed out early on. But this is the infamous s-list that induced Jill and her husband to claim that the COS was a dangerously abusive cult. And where did they get these ideas from? From Peggy Nadramia and Peter Gilmore primarily, and to a lesser extent, from the COS's shock troops.
With Tani finally coming online, things changed. Half of the shock troops are now still the most loyal COS members. The tragically deceased Xloptuny was one of them, I remember him *quite well*. His style of flaming can be seen; just do a search: you'll certainly recognize it; the style can't be missed. It consists of disjointed sentences written with the vilest insults imaginable, with no attempt to dialogue or even address the topic being discussed. Both Circe and Egan were the recipients of these flames. The other half of the shock troops left to join other organizations, including Satanic Reds. Satanic Reds, however, won't tolerate that kind of cult intolerance and regulation. People might need to get a clue - but Tani is nothing like that. And par for the course, people emailed the real Tani and told her they had been having a conversation with her for a long time: they wondered who the hell they had been actually talking to. Well, it wasn't any of my old crowd. Tani never found out. I never found out. But I can guarantee it wasn't Tani they talked to. She had been disassociated from *all* of this "Satanic stuff" since 1996.
You need to get this idea clear in your head. There is no "Tani and her gang." "Tani and her friends." "Tani's people" that you or anyone else online know of. They aren't online. They never were online. I can name Tani's *friends* and count them with my fingers: her real friends.
There was me and *my* friends mostly unknown to Tani. The others were nothing other than COS shock troops, urged on, cheered on, by Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia. That is the *truth*, Kerry. I wonder if you are capable of recognizing the truth when admitted to by one of the people who threatened you both. I'm the one who outed you both on the advice of Jamilla, to a Black Nationalist group. I'm the one along with Jamilla (who is black) that started all that "white boy pinky dick" flame style, though I doubt it surpasses the Master Xloptuny or Filan's "Mikey's dead mother" flames. I'm the one who flamed Lupo (something he never got over and still blames Tani for). I even posted porno adds for Jamilla. I did this. Me. I was 15. I was immature. I was angry and all of this was a wonderful outlet for rage. As I said, better online than offline.
And now, what are we all to think of you and your little "anti Set" egroup or whatever it is you have formed? That it is a royal waste of everyone's time is beyond a doubt. That you have not moved on? That you, by your own admission, did all this unpaid labor, including flaming us back, "for the TOS," which you now claim you knew was a 1984 Big Brother outfit? You pushed and preached the doctrines of an organization, something that was in reality "1984 Big Brother" on the masses or on the new people that joined the TOS? And now you fault the COS's shock troops for visciously attacking you when perhaps they already knew this about the TOS? Please. Go away. Deal with yourself.
Did Michael Aquino ever *ask* you to do all this "work?" I doubt it. You were "helping the new people." Helping them what, Kerry? Helping them adjust and get used to 1984 Big Brother? Yes, that's what it all really amounts to. Please. Accept responsibility for your own choices and your own actions and stop *blaming* Michael Aquino, or the Schrecks or whatever new devil you concoct in your head for choices you not only made, but were completely aware of for years. You weren't 15.
I was 15 when I did all that. I had a lot of free time and getting into mischief online was a lot safer than getting into mischief offline. I've grown up. I've washed my hands of what I clearly perceived to be COS filth and helped to found a very positive organization. The difference is, I never *joined* the COS and never would join such an outfit. In real life I never pushed their views and never would. I was having *fun* back then, setting fire to *you people* and this newsgroup. I had a royal laugh over all of it. It was hilarious. But at no time did I ever give a shit about any of it.
When I flamed the wrong person (a COS member, specifically it was ManInBlack, Andre Schlesinger) I immediately patched that up. It was only TOS members that were to be flamed. Those were the ground rules as set forth by Peggy Nadramia and Peter Gilmore. The "mutual admiration society" garbage.
I don't think this is too hard to grasp. Are you afraid to give *credit* where the credit is due? You continue to give Tani the credit. How strange, since the minute she became aware of the situation she put an end to it; true, she really overdid it by going to the FBI. She didn't know that this was normal behavior online, especially with flames. The medals of honor go to Peggy Nadramia and Peter Gilmore. Not to Tani.
When Tani got online in late 1999, she was immediately attacked by total strangers. She was linked to the COS as being part of an abusive cult that demands unconditional obedience (I refer you to COS members admitting that they gladly give this; I refer you to Peter Gilmore's little email asking for coordinated attacks against The Enemy: it's on the COS files). She needed allies to defend herself and who else but the COS members could help?
However, as events can be seen on hindsight, as soon as that was cleared out of the way, she exposed everything with the help of the strongest shock troops the COS had. She, of all people, knew damned well that all of it came right from the *top* - Sycophants Unite!. It did not come from Schlesinger or any of the lay members. Unlike you who seem to be unable to accept responsibility for pushing "1984 Big Brother" on naive new people, Tani takes responsibility for the actions we all did, despite the fact that she knew and saw very little of it.
Remember, *I* am the one you and Craig were flaming and who flamed you. Me. Me and other COS members. Forget about all that rubbish about "Tani said to post this." Tani didn't say *shit*. What Tani actually did say is on Vad's website, it's on Satanic Reds website. No use even trying to squirm out of that by spewing rubbish about how loyal and helpful you and yours were, how beneficial you were to the TOS. Deal with yourself.
Brendan - Former White Devil Gang leader, Former COS shock troop. Grown up.
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Email from Brendan (Proletariat) to Tani and others in respose to this query:
----- Original Message -----
Brendan, questions... Two questions, actually. I'll keep this for once, and file it somewhere. You are the only person with records of all this so.....
Way, way back, when Diane Vera first called Tani up and talked to her and a few others down here, all this Dark Doctrine stuff got posted. Then it ended up on Hr.Vad's website - at first friendly, later flames. WHO were the original gang? Gilmore used to call it the Gang of Nine - so there had to be 9 people?
I remember the BIG shock it was to him - and I guess to the gang that was supposed to be speaking for the Doctrines, that Tani would NOT go along with a war against Egan or anyone else. Tani also had the "reputation" for stopping the Tos from flaming the Cos, or separating the two orgs - but I didn't have a CLUE what that was about. I just told Tani to claim it, since she had the rep for it. Then Tani got online and a heap of COS disasters happened, like the Jill "Underground Panther" garbage, that landed in her lap. We helped her out with that too, along with the COS members helping her.
Do you remember WHO the gang of 9 originally was, and the approximate dates or years this stuff happened? There are others in the cc, please reply to all, 2 are not in egroup but might be curious.
J
POWER TO THE WORKING PEOPLE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Proletariat" <relaxdc@xxxxxxx.com
To: <satanicreds@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [satanicreds] PROLE, can you answer this?
Big questions. I'll address this to Tani.
First of all, back, WAY BACK when you were sending snail mail and seeing printouts from emails, usenet, and egroups - you had NO idea of what the Internet was, how it worked, what went on there, etc. You didn't even know the difference between a private email and a usenet post, etc etc. You didn't understand usenet and its flame wars. You didn't know ANY of this stuff - and it would have been a waste to try to explain it, because I tried a couple of times and you just never got it. You had to experience it to understand it, becuase it's SO different from anything NON-internet. Hell, look at this egroup! It's SO differnet from old snail mail circles or zines or anything. SO different. And very different from eg hanging out at a bar and talking and debating. The Internet is its OWN frame of reference - it's just too unique and has its own ways, which are different from anything that came before it.
I'll try to put some dates on these events. Maybe 1995, definitely 1995... when I first started helping you post stuff because I had inet access, and you didn't.
Back then, the first posts were DECENT and serious. You and Phil wrote them or had them from before, with strange language in them. We all retyped this from printed out copies, and I edited some of it to take out weird names for the stuff if I had to.
The people were me, Herr Vad, Wayne, and Karl. We posted decent stuff of our own, plus the stuff from you and Phil. That's all on Herr Vad's website now. Xloptuny, Lupo, and Filan were the only vicious people at this point. I think that was 1995.
Then Peggy Nadramia got information from you and Phil, and when this got posted on alt.satanism, there were flames in there, but not bad ones. I had the originals and noticed the difference. Just sarcastic stuf, like Gilmore writes stuff, the same stuff he used to write about "Mikey's eyebrows" or "Lupus Lillith" or "Mikey's baby pictures" or "Mikey and Mr. Spock." Or other stupid shit.
Filan's were definately the worst at the time. Then, still in 1995, Mr. Scratch showed up and started making veiled threats, or at least it sounded that way with him talking about El Rancho Scratcho, and arsenals, and flesh rending weapons, like a would-be cop. Whatever.
Then definately between 1995 and 1996, it became an all out flame war, really vicious, with our side being Filan, me and my friends, Hr Vad, Xloptuny, Karl, Jackson (that was realy 3 people using some other name but Jackson had the accounts, I forgot the name or names he used to post), and Wayne sending me stuff, I'm not sure if Casey was involved yet. The flames were all so similar.
Some guy from the carnival, a guy named Nick R was emailing me things to post too, defending LaVey and accusing Aquino of a bunch of stuff, but it wasn't vicious.
So it was these people at first, versus Mr. Scratch, and Lupo who had become our enemy, since he got buddy buddy with Scratch. Some other anonymous posters showed up and Filan called them ToS sockpuppets. Ole and Adam came into this later.
So that's nine: Filan, me, Hr.Vad, Xloptuny, Wayne, Karl, Jackson, Ole and Adam. It was actually more than 9 people but 9 main people that I knew well enough to have decent email conversations and posting dialogues with. There were other CoS people too, but I didn't know them.
Oh, Diane Vera messed with Karl's head and me and Jackson's crew flamed the shit out of her "in your name," since she honored and respected you and ignored us. She never knew the difference. That was back when Lupo became an enemy. Lupo never got over that. I called him a "pinky dicked honky white boy" and he still has a fit about it. HEH, I used to write some GOOD flames. Crazy stuff, but good - I think, heh. It was very fun at the time - I was an angry teenager! We flamed her so bad we permanently chased her off alt.satanism.
Maybe late 1996, or in 1997 I think. By the time Man in Black [Andre Schlesinger] got involved, I flamed him through the walls and was told in a private email that MiB was a CoS member and asked not to flame him. Despite the fact that he was talking a bunch of stupid shit, I was "told" not to flame him by Gilmore.
That's what started me thinking about the CoS. So I got everything LaVey ever wrote, every Cloven Hoof. He wrote stupid shit. Nothing heavy at all, nothing informative, a bunch of wrong shit, nothing life enhancing at all. Nothing to lead one to understanding or enjoyment of life, just confused mumbling garbage. A lot of it was prone to fascist thinking or tendencies. Just a bunch of old grouch resentment. It's all in everything LaVey ever said, even way back in the early Cloven Hoofs. I have them all. Black Flame is filled from cover to cover with a bunch of pro Nazi shit or just stupid, uninformed shit. Or pseudo-intellectual garbage. Overall, negativity and confused garbage. Will Focus on the herd and their stupid affairs - obsessing over their lives like a bitter ex-lover. Obviously, LaVey WANTED to be of them, even though he wasn't. His whole COS was just one big side-show FOR the herd. Like a kid in grade school making problems in the corner, trying so hard to get ANY attention, even if it was bad attention. Bad attention is better than no attention to people like that. It seems to me that in that regard, LaVey's life was one big temper tantrum. Everything from fucking the blonde women, watching them piss, robots, "satan" spooky "religion," speeches for the idiots (as if LaVey was an expert), nasty faces for the camera, all of it. He was a jewish boy whose heart was broken somehow by what he perceived as American Society or Christian Society, and he never got over it. He never grew up. Those aspects of his life were like a broken record with a hole in the center, that just kept playing the same fucked up song over and over again. NOW I can see that. At the time, I did NOT see this, but noticed that reading the Black Flame or Clover Hoof for good ideas or information was a complete waste of time.
I had a gang of friends since I was 12 years old that used to do really malicious shit on computers back then to total strangers, and in real life they were pretty bad ass people as they grew older. Like gang bangers, blacks and whites - the whites were all wiggers, some were in jail already as kids. All the blacks had been in juvie jails. Bad kids, street kids. We had one of the accounts but we weren't the only people whose posts got on there from that. I think at one time it came down to everything from any of our side coming from 2 or 3 accounts. Filan had more than one account too, he posted as Harwer. These people came and went regarding this flame war as far as my gang or Jackson's gang is concerned.
But then a new group of CoS people like Mein Kampf, Lestat Ventrue "blalok" I think his nick was, and Man in Black arrived and none of us could stand them. Xloptuny hated Man in Black, I don't know if you knew that. Xloptuny honored Hr.Vad and Ole Wolf on his own website as the most Satanic (read vicious) Satanists he ever knew and to him, that was "being Satanic."
Me and my friends grew up; some of us started in college; others got jobs. We generally saw Gilmore and Nadramia as two adult cowards asking us to fight their battles for them as they sat back and gave us personal information on people that had really done nothing to them, considering what I had seen people can do to each other for real, in real life when I grew up. I regarded all these flame wars as a waste of time and worthless, compared to real life things happening outside the computer. That was about the end of the flame war. You called the FBI. I don't know what happened to the other people, but we were minors and they came to our homes and talked to our parents. My mother thought it was funny and rather I fight on a computer than in the streets - but definitely safer.
The next thing that happened, maybe 1997, was Ole Wolf's S-list, which everyone from the CoS, and people "recommended by Gilmore or Nadramia" was on. I was on it. Me and Karl thought that people would be different on there, more like real life. But it wasn't like that, they were the same assholes on there, starting flame wars or talking about stupid shit. I guess that's the real them, in real life.
I left just before the Jill Panther business started up bad. It was too much, a waste of time. Then we made Satanic Reds. That was definitely 1997. The only people you ever posted to at this time through us with real computer disks that we could all read and write directly into was the Maoist International Movement. That was some HEAVY conversation but the funniest ones were where you flamed yourself in those Archie Bunker diatribes. That was FUNNY. Pure Plato. There was SO MUCH information that got discussed there, from MANY perspectives. They were great. LOTS of enlightening dialogue there. That stuff was way better than the university education I got after it. It made even the best professors' classes and readings PALE in comparison to our "just for fun" e-conversation.
At the time this was going on with Jill and the FCoS chasing the CoS off, Casey was definitely online because she posted as "Casey" or One Darkness. She flames exactly like I do, big capital letters and all. There was the FCoS fighting the CoS and at one point; the FCoS people ran the CoS people off alt.satanism.
Blanche wrote a directive we all saw ordering us to stay off alt.satanism. I was barely on there, at this point. Ole and Casey and maybe some others, I forgot since I was barely there, were flaming Jill Panther for slandering you and the Dark Doctrines, since you didn't even know Jill or have anything to do with what happened on the S-list. Dr. Lao was in on this too, this was 1999. So then, the Jill Panther thing started on the S-list probably in 1998 or 1999. That's when the FCoS was giving the CoS big trouble.
I was asked to flame them too, but I thought Lord Egan was too funny to flame and I didn't feel like fighting Peter Gilmore's stupid wars. Lord Egan wasn't a fascist shit head either. At this point, in my opinion, the CoS was bonafide pro Nazi organization, with Peter Gilmore and his little Hitler mustache and Peggy Nadramia's STUPID article on the "fascist dark force." What a stupid bitch. The whole joke was that these people would all be total REJECTS in real Nazi society. All of them. They wanted to go to the concentration camps? There are easier ways to commit suicide.
Next thing that happened is you got online and some heads spun over that because you were nothing like the "persona of Tani" that everyone had portrayed. Tani, people were scared of you due to the shit we all did. Karl just about made you out to be a serial killer or psychopath. Oh, Dan Clore took the side against you too, but it was personal. I took him on; that's how come posts that claim they are from you are on alt.horror.cthulhu. I don't think you ever saw that. Clore was also a very vicious flamer. Super flamer. Worse than Filan. As bad as us.
You were defending yourself against the attacks of Jill Panther who blamed you for what Ventrue, Ole and Man In Black did to her, and against Dan Clore who, in your eyes, came out of the blue to attack you. Filan helped you track him down along with the other enemies of the CoS that attacked you. So at this point, Filan was on your side. This was the year 2000 then. You were learning computers and internet with Jeff and Radu helping you. About this time Jeff Gerber decided to bring the affairs of the CoS to the head of the ADL. [snip personal things]
When that got done, well, you probably know the rest. You did what you did - against the CoS - and as a Mag inside of it with the help of their own formerly strongest members and allies.
You know, every one of us wanted you to do this? Metadromos wanted you to take over the CoS. Ole wondered what you had to do with the CoS. You did something better. You trashed the CoS and continued with the Satanic Reds, which was going on fine since 1997.
It's good that you never involved yourself directly with that [the SR] while all this other poison was going on. We have a fantastic organization, Tani. Wonderful people, solid gold information. Our dialogues lead to enlightnment and self-enhancement. They clear away all the garbage and bullshit, unlike COS, which attracts and accumulates muddle, confusion, and misdirected Will. Even when the Dark Doctrines were on the COS website, they were muddled with all kinds of irrelevancy and obfuscating nonsense.
SR is GREAT. It's an alternative to all the nastiness and herd bullshit that often permeates so many other orgs and people. We have so much good information that it's incredible. It's like it has something in it that can indicate the way to something far away from 99% of what's out there - self-enhancement and clarity and thus to the enjoyment of life. I can't emphasize that strongly enough. Look how much BEAUTIFUL stuff has come out of it! Beautiful images, ideas, conversation. It speaks for itself. Our website is overflowing with files full of this GOOD STUFF.
That's why it's important to clear up this muck from the past once and for all. Hope this helps.
Prole
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