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CLEARING THE FETID AIR - putting it up here and let this be the end of the ridiculousness.
By J. Mueller - co-founder of Satanic Reds
This is regarding the involvement with the Church of Satan and Tani Jantsang. It is being written to spare Ms. Jantsang the tedious and boring chore of having to copy and paste material for idiots that seem to take the material they asked for and lose it down a black hole. It's to spare Tani from having to reiterate acts one through five of a play we all consider so boring and irrelevant that only the duped rubes enamored of the Church of Satan would give a damned about any of it.
It is specifically written for people such as Tyagi Nagasiva Boborishi nocTifer SoD of CoE the self-proclaimed "archivist online monk," or anyone else that claims they want to know (but actually appear to not want to know), and for the purpose of people that repeat the same, tired questions, appearing to want answers, who only give uninformed, uninvolved idiots that weren't involved in any of it a reason to accuse Tani of "talking about the god damned COS again" on some usenet newsgroup wasteland.
Up front, any court of law or detective would examine the hard core proof - the published, in-print proof.
Therefore:
1. Let it be known that in every issue of "The Black Flame," the Church of Satan's own official mouthpiece, Tani's and/or her group's material and articles can be seen. This group was the same Kishite group that existed back in the 1970s - with people coming in and leaving (moving away). I personally came into contact with these people in 1987 through Wayne Hill who had been with this group since 1974. At the time, the Kishites were handing Dark Tradition information to various "new" Christian groups that were grateful for this information. Of course, it was presented to them using Christian lingo.
2. Let it be known that the Church of Satan wrote about all of this material from Tani and her group as the ROOTS of Satanism, the FOUNDATIONS of Satanism and other such astonishing, impacting words. Portions of two of the monographs sold in Dark Tradition were printed in the "Black Flame" magazine, and it was the Church of Satan that changed the original title to "ROOTS of Satanism." That is how highly they thought of this material.
3. Let it be known that the Church of Satan's High Priest, Anton LaVey, handed Tani Jantsang a honorary title of Magistra specifically for this material. This is not the same as a Priestess; it is a lot higher. This is also not the same as handing out a red membership card.
4. Let it be known that the Church of Satan made use of this FOUNDATIONAL ROOTS material and tried to incorporate it, and that an entire Grotto of the Church of Satan was based on this material, the Prometheus Grotto. In fact, the person, Hr. Vad, was handed the Grotto and a Priesthood by Anton LaVey, for hosting this Dark Tradition material.
5. Let it be known that this is what was ongoing since 1990 in the Church of Satan until they were forbidden to use any of the material by Tani Jantsang et. al. as this material is copyrighted. Copyright Registration Number TX 5-926-685, 1990, owned by Philip Marsh. Letter forbidding use.
And now for the other side, offering hard proof in the form of published, in-print material because the libelous hearsay of people who weren't even there amounts to nothing but rumor mongering. One must wonder how desperate and how pathetic these people can be to make such a fuss over this:
6. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never once incorporated a single thing or a single idea that was of or from the Church of Satan or any of its members; not one single idea! What she thought of their ideas was well-known to the 3 people "on top" that mattered at the time: Peter Gilmore, Peggy Nadramia, and Anton Lavey. Tani's group was pretty hostile toward all things LaVeyan because the material didn't enlighten anyone but more likely dragged people down into the muck. .
7. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never had any USE for any of their material or ideas! That would be evident to anyone reading the Dark Tradition material. Much of it is even anathema to all things LaVeyan.
8. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang did not consider Anton LaVey her High Priest of any sort - or of being a person with enough knowledge to be the High Priest of anything.
9. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang never once, at any time, put any such title on any single thing she wrote for them, for others, or sold in the Dark Tradition Monographs, otherwise known as the Dark Doctrines, which you can find on our own website for free, or buy monographs.
10. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang was also handed two other titles in Satanic organizations before Anton LaVey gave her one, and that one of these organizations, The Embasat, was strongly at odds with the Church of Satan.
11. Let it be known that Tani Jantsang held these three titles at the same time and this was well-known to these three organizations.
12. Let it be known that these other organizations also used material from Tani and her group and one of them, the Order of the Left Hand Path, even represented itself as a "Dark Doctrine" organization in the published book "Lucifer Rising."
There are hard facts, proven by published material.
Did some people imagine that the Church of Satan was the "only Satanic organization" that represented the Dark Doctrines? Yes, some did and they lived to regret that. The Emperor's New Religion spells that out. It is an extensively researched essay in pdf (Adobe Reader) format. (Adobe Reader can be downloaded for free here.). Anyone that had the brains to simply ask Tani about it would have been immediately disabused of that idea. Many did ask and were told, bluntly. Others didn't ask, they assumed, they believed the Church of Satan and lived to regret it.
What happened? In our view, since none of the other founders had a thing to do with the Church of Satan and disliked them openly from the start (1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s), nothing much happened. But for those few idiots that only know of online matters, and who'd love to believe in fantasies, "much" happened. And so, we will tell you exactly what happened without the guff and groaning and flames and distractions.
Members of the Church of Satan and some few others were complaining about being bullied by certain others in the Church of Satan, including titled officials in the Church of Satan.
Seeing Tani Jantsang online in late 1999, they saw that she was friendly and notably did not flame anyone that did not flame her first. They came to her with their complaints.
Tani simply forwarded the complaints to Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia and forgot about it. These people thanked Tani for doing this. .
As things progressed, Tani learned that a few other Church of Satan members took their complaints to Blanche Barton, who was the HP of the Church of Satan after Mr. LaVey died. According to them, this did not go well because Ms. Barton handed their complaints over to Peter Gilmore and Peggy Nadramia to handle. They didn't not get handled.
Finally, Peggy Nadramia asked Tani Jantsang to get proof of this bullying and show it to her. When Tani Jantsang set out to do this, no one behaved like a bully when Tani was around. So Tani suggested that the COS members that complained, and others, go get the proof themselves. Log things. Keep emails with full headers. Etc.
After having gotten some of this, Tani handed it to Peggy Nadramia. This resulted in Peggy getting angry with Ygraine Gidney for telling Tani about her former trouble with Priest Schlesinger of the COS, and explaining how Ms. Barton did nothing but hand it to Peggy Nadramia. And that resulted in Ygraine Gidney getting angry at Tani for "betraying a confidence." What confidence was there to be betrayed when Tani was getting this information for Peggy to begin with?
In my opinion, this is just such a bunch of complete bullshit that it's unthinkable. Why would people who are being bullied remain in an organization? Why would they whine to Tani for help? Are they nuts? Did they really imagine that the CoS was "something?" How demented can anyone be? why didn't they ask for the membership fee back and simply quit? Obviously, they like being told what to do, what to think, with whom to associate (definitely do not associate with Lord Egen, for instance) and they like being bullied. Masochists. Christoid sheep in need of a leader. Definitely not independent people with minds of their own.
Tired of all this rubbish, and having finished what she set out to do, Tani decided to make her own chatroom where things would be more pleasant. Various and sundry Church of Satan people, including Priests, Priestesses and Magisters, went out of their way to invade this chatroom and start fights with Tani (apparently, they don't pay attention to LaVey's own advice when it comes to disturbing people). Tani promptly told them to go to hell and kicked them off. Who did these people think they were dealing with when they tried to bitch at Tani for allowing members of other Satanic organizations into her chatroom? Where did they think they even had a right to do such a thing?
What else was going on subsequent, but not related, to all of this?
Subsequent to all of this tiresome baloney, another thing happened regarding Timothy Stewart Epperhart, a Church of Satan Active Member and member of John Davis' "Satanic Combat Society." (John Davis is "Xloptuny," the husband of Jacqueline Davis and a good friend of the Gidneys. He's the guy that killed himself.)
Tim Stewart had posted a request on the "Letters To The Devil "(LttD) bulletin board, a Church of Satan board owned by Priest Lestat Ventrue of the Church of Satan. The request was for articles pertaining to something Tim Stewart had heard much about: "a fascist ethic in Satanism." In fact, Tim Stewart saw an article by Peggy Nadramia that seemed to be in favor of this "fascist mystique." Tim Stewart simply wanted essays, since he disagreed with the idea that fascism was identical to Satanism.
For requesting essays, Tim Stewart got abused and threatened and told to read "Mein Kampf," Adolf Hitler's book. Tim Stewart got the clear idea that there was a fascist faction within the Church of Satan itself. We believe that had Tim Stewart paid closer attention to articles in "The Black Flame," the Church of Satan's official newsletter, he'd have had no doubt about that. Had Tim Stewart known a thing about Jeffrey DeBoo, he'd also have known about it. Jeffrey DeBoo may as well be seen as the "anti fascist watch dog" in Satanism.
Tim Stewart next posted these requests and some preliminary first draft essays on the usenet newsgroup alt.satanism. He got no responses on there from anyone. .
Tim Stewart next came to the chatroom Tani and her friends made and requested essays. He did get responses and he got essays from many people.
Happy with that, Tim Stewart asked or paid for a website to be made for his essays, which collection he entitled, "Project One." That was done.
Ygraine Gidney and her friends decided to concern themselves with Tim Stewart's excellent idea. They harassed him about it. They finally went to Peter Gilmore about it and got him to take a look at Tim Stewart's collection of essays.
That resulted in Tim Stewart getting a threatening letter from Peter Gilmore that, for some odd reason, included Tani Jantsang and Dark Doctrines. It is strange because nowhere in any of the essays Tim Stewart collected, and nowhere in sight was there any mention of Dark Doctrines. He simply has his opening preface, a statement, and some essays. He was terrified by what Peter Gilmore wrote him and he took the collection of essays down. In his cowardice, he told Gilmore that Tani had helped him get the essays! True, Tani did do that. But Tim Stewart had this ongoing project long before he ever mentioned it to Tani.
We at the SR are not so lightly intimidated by anyone over such matters. The entire collection can be seen as "Is Fascism Satanic" on the SR website. All of it makes for a very interesting read, since many viewpoints are shown on there, both pro and con.
Meanwhile, some of these people on Ygraine Gidney's side against Tim Stewart, decided to take this squabble online to the usenet group known as alt.satanism and drag Tani Jantsang into it. They prattled on about how Anton LaVey specifically told them that, "the Church of Satan is a dictatorship."
Tani Jantsang, for the first time in her life, used the Magistra title in her responses to these people - she trashed them, flamed them, tore them to shreds. Then Tani printed out all of it and sent it personally to Blanche Barton.
Of course, Ms. Barton wrote back to Tani, hurt, confused, she felt deceived and used, and took the Magistra title away from Tani.
Let us have a look at this. Did Ms. Barton take anything away from Tani that Tani used? NO. Published material proves this.
Tani, on the other hand, told the Church of Satan that they no longer had any permission to use a single word, sentence, paragraph or idea from the Dark Tradition Monographs (Dark Doctrines).
Let us have a look at this: Was that taking something away that the Church of Satan did use? YES. Published material proves this.
After all that happened, fans of the Church of Satan tried to insist that this disentitlement meant something to Tani. They can spin their wheels all they wish, but the hard core, published material proves this is just not the case. I can affirm it is not the case since I was present at the birthday party in 1992 where two of the group put up a donkey with LaVey's face on its ass: Pin the Tale on the LaVeykey. It's on 8 mm film and it is hilarious. Do you get the idea that we all thought of LaVey as a jackass? We did.
After all that happened, fans of the Church of Satan would like to claim that Ms. Barton was conning Tani. As The Barton Letters show, this is just not the case at all. These were put up to show "proof" when people inventing the fabrications asked for proof.
Now, this happened around 2000. It is now 2004 and the fans of the Church of Satan, and anyone they can get to help them, are still bothering Tani on usenet wastelands such as alt.satanism. They distort events, misquote what she said, try to doctor it up any which way, they even try to deny the proof they themselves gave Tani showing that officials, such as Priest Rex Church, in the Church of Satan claimed, on radio, that the Church of Satan was, indeed, a fascist organization. It is now 2006 and still, they go to the trouble to deface anything on Wikipedia that speaks about this SR organization.
How desperate can they be? How pathetically terrified can they be of the only organization that owns and represents the Dark Tradition? Obviously, they are frantic about it, frantic enough to spend time doing the stupidest things one can imagine. Do they even bother to go to Christian anti-Satanic articles and deface them? No, apparently they do not regard the Christian anti-Satanists as much of a threat to their existence at all. Actions speak loudly - their actions are clear. Their actions are rooted in total fear and irrationality because Christians, especially Evangelicals, REALLY ARE a threat to them.
These people obviously have a strongly vested interest in trying to change what actually happened, or confusing other people with the timing of these events. They feel the need to waste their time, now going on four years doing this (2004). They use libel about person and property, as if that matters. They "out" personal matters, as if that matters. They lie about the personal information, too, as if that matters. They take Tani's photographs and deface them, turning beautiful images into pornographic images, as if that matters. (In my opinion, that's great publicity). They will state a completely fabricated falsehood of their own making, and then proceed to treat that fabrication as if it is the truth. And so forth. If Tani wastes her time flaming them back, or correcting their errors, she is then immediately accused of talking about the Church of Satan. These people are clearly obsessed people, a whole gang of them, that thrive on old squabbles and like to sling mud around, as if in their attempt to sling mud at Tani, they can change the facts.
It would seem to any objective observer that the Church of Satan is quite angry that the Satanic Reds - and Tani in particular, shut them out and closed the door on them, even trashing them and helping others to compile "CoS Files" to rip them to shreds. Keep in mind, that the CoS Files were written by people in the CoS itself, not by Tani or any of us! It would seem to any objective observer that they are very angry that the SR organization exists, is doing fine, and has absolutely no roots in their club or in the mouthings of Anton LaVey, SR has no use for any of their stuff, and does not ever use any of their stuff. They realistically should be happy about that. But they aren't.
Tani did a little bit more than just print out and mail all of the trash about the Church of Satan's members to Ms. Barton? It seems that Tani did a wee bit more than just that. She also handed all of that and more, much offline hard copy material, to one Jeffrey A. Gerber to give to the people that requested this information: THE ADL of the B'NAI B'RITH. Mr. Gerber paid Tani for her time.
Why would Tani do that when, prior to that, she didn't care much about intra-organizational squabbles or even know any of these people involved? One very simple reason: they invaded her turf and dared to try to tell her what to do, who to talk to, who not to talk to, and so forth. They also asked her for help. When she gave them the help they asked for, they turned on her because they realized that the "bullying" they complained about came straight from the top. That is what they did. That is a declaration of war. (Why Mr. Gerber did what he did is not our concern. He was not an SR member or a Satanist. Mr. Gerber was a Freemason and a religious Jew.)
There is nothing more to this. Anyone looking for more is simply looking for dirt.
These are the objective, provable, published facts. We fail to see what more needs to be said. Nothing more needs to be said.
If anyone wishes more information about any of this, they can find it on "Unfortunate Necessary Statements."
Anyone that relies on squabbles that started offline, went to private mails, phone or emails, and then, finally and maybe, spilled over onto usenet or chatrooms in bits and pieces, is a certifiable moron.
Anyone that relies on outsiders, especially uninformed and uninvolved outsiders, for inside information is a certifiable moron.
Anyone that relies on a self-proclaimed online monk's "usenet archives" instead of going to the various organizations or independents for the information about these organizations or individuals, first hand, is a certifiable moron.
If you want to know what I think, ask me. Do not ask my brother, my friend, my parents or my enemies. Do not ask Tani or Vad or any other founder of this organization. Ask me. If you do otherwise, then you prove that you do not want to know.
In my personal opinion only, anyone that even bothers handing such information over to "curious outsiders" when the information about these organizations is to be found within the organizations, is wasting their good time. Nine times out of ten the "curious outsider" does not want to know, does not want to do the research needed to know and will most likely indulge in an argument without even carefully reading what he has been handed. He most likely has an agenda, whether he realizes it or not.
