This is the original Project One (Is Fascism Satanic) as it was seen by Peter Gilmore, after Ygraine Gidney bugged him to go l

The original PROJECT ONE of Timothy Stewart Epperhart, also known as Citizen Stewart and Wolf at Hart, Active Member of the COS (Church of Satan) and SCS (Satanic Combat Sciences of COS Active member John "Xloptuny" Davis).

This is being put up here due to the nagging efforts of Bobo (aka Boboroshi, Nagasiva, Tyagi, Sod of CoE, and etc) and Harry Lime (Tim or James Jordan) of harrylimetv.com (porn site), who are trying very hard to switch things around so that Peter Gilmore doesn't come off a blithering idiot or a paranoid nutcase for writing what some of us think is an insane email to Timothy Stewart Epperhart.

Basically, to summarize up front:

Who is Tim? In 2000, Timothy Stewart Epperhart was a 20 year old Church of Satan active member that was also a member of the Davis couple's "Satanic Combat Sciences." He was also known as Wolf at Hart and Citizen Stewart.

First of all, Tim Stewart Epperhart saw this essay, as did everyone in the Church of Satan that was online. It was a short essay written by Peggy Nadramia (at the time, she was part of the Council of Nine [two people] of the Church of Satan; now she's the High Priestess of the Church of Satan). Here is her essay; I have no idea when she wrote this:

SATANISM, NAZISM AND FASCISM, BY PEGGY NADRAMIA

The last time I talked to Boyd, we discussed our Barbie collections. Some Nazi.

Here's how Nazism and fascism fit into Satanism, as I see it:

1. You're already a Satanist, the most evil being the status quo could ever imagine. Why the hell do you care if they call you a Nazi? Is there a Good Guy Badge stuck to one of your old suits? Go check your closet.

2. Nazism scares people. Satan scares people. Some Satanists like to scare people, so they dress in Nazi fashion and have fun goose-stepping down the strasse. B.F.D. [BFD = Big Fucking Deal. ed.]

3. Satanists see nature as a dark force, a very fascist force, within them and without them. When you hear them talking about fascism, they are often thinking of what I can only call "deep fascism," not political fascism. I agree with the assertion that a Libertarian society would be the best one for Satanists, from a political perspective, but we also have a lot of opinions about the social structure of a Satanic society. Would we be "free" to enslave ourselves to each other, if that's how we wanted to live? While Libertarianism might rule the land, Satanists may choose to live in tribal settings that are internally very Communistic or Socialistic. For example, I wouldn't mind "working for the good of others" as long as the "others" were of my choosing, my tribe of loved ones.

4. Nazism, like the image of the Arch Demon, appeals to the young because it embodies strength and control to those who have little of either in their lives. They'll get over it.

5. It's a fashion trend.

6. "The plague of Nazism" is being trumped-up by those who would choose to drive a wedge between us, disperse us and weaken us. Don't let them do it. Lighten up.

********************

Obviously, long before I ever got online, this essay was written by Peggy Nadramia and she was specifically addressing people who were calling this a "plague of Nazism." She is also obviously disagreeing with the anti-Nazis. To this day, I have no idea who she was addressing this to, but it must have been online stuff or things written in magazines that I never saw. I also never heard about any of this from people I did sort of know in the COS, such as Ole Wolf or Hr. Vad. In fact, this essay Peggy wrote was on Hr. Vad's website when I first saw it! So, as that stands, no one in the Prometheus Grotto (a COS grotto, which Hr. Vad ran at the time) was complaining about it or it wouldn't have been up on Hr. Vad's site.

So, Tim tried to get essays from others reading the Church of Satan's message board and from their chatroom (at the time, #satannet) on the subject of fascism and satanism, or fascism in satanism.

As we later found out, when he actually got some essays and talked more openly on the phone, on voice chat and on irc, he got picked on and abused, even threatened. He had logs of this and wrote a letter of complaint to Peggy about it, obviously either getting no response, or he never mentioned getting one. He was told to shut up, go read Mein Kampf (Adolf Hitler's book), watch his back, and so forth.

Next, he posted a few things he wrote on this subject on alt.satanism, but got no responses. These two things happened a few months apart.

Next, even months later, he came into our chatroom #satanmuse and asked COS members that were in our chatroom and asked me to help him get essays (he saw me as a Mag in the COS). What I can honestly say is that I immediately thought of the occult movements in the Third Reich when he broached the subject, and thought it would be interesting. Tim, at this time, did not mention anything about the abuse he suffered. He just asked for essays about "fascism and satanism." No one knew, at this time, if he was in favor of it or against it, and he didn't say one way or the other. On hindsight, one might assume he didn't say much in order to avoid potentially getting abused again.

So he got these essays, which are shown below, from some people and put them on a website he owned. He had many more, but they were not on his website because he neglected to pay the web designer the money promised for the work. (Jacqueline Davis later paid his debt for him, out of a sense of honor.) So, the ones shown below are the ones he had on his website - and these are the essays Peter Gilmore had to have seen before writing Tim that long email.

Then, Ygraine Gidney got Peter Gilmore (Peggy Nadramia's husband) to read his website and send him a long email (shown below with nothing edited). In tight with Ygraine Gidney were her husband, William Gidney (Jesus of Borg) and John and Jacqueline Davis (John Davis was also known as Xloptuny). COS Magister Jeff Nagy and his wife were sort of in tight with the Gidneys and Davises, too. It is possible that Lestad Ventrue was also in tight with them, along with a few others. I do not know, but Ventrue was the person who owned the "Letters to the Devil" COS message board.

Tim felt threatened by the email Peter Gilmore sent him and said so to quite a few people. He was terrified of being thrown out of the Church of Satan and admitted that. He was kicked out of the Satanic Combat Sciences when one of the essays he got (but never used) was written by FCOS Magister Les Masters. (The FCOS was Lord Egan's group, at the time the Number One Enemy of the Church of Satan).

When trying to defend himself against the email Peter Gilmore sent him, he tried to hide behind me (Tani Jantsang) but that didn't go well, either. He also tried to accuse me of handing his essays to Audy Morgan to edit the things he wrote, however Audy Morgan had no clue that any of this essay collection was even going on. Two COS members and Casey edited the Introduction and Commentary Tim wrote, with Tim on the phone approving of all of it and simply stating what he wished to say in plain language (instead of trying to write an intellectual essay).

Well, after trying to hide behind my apron strings due to the "rather large" email Gilmore wrote him, he "forget" that he wrote his own intro and commentary - despite the fact that these were posted on alt.satanism by him before anyone giving him essays bothered with it, including me. He kowtowed to the very thing he had been bitching about.

Next, he got into a few flames with me over it - whereas I did nothing but get him essays that he asked for. After that or during that, John Davis (of that Satanic Combat Science thing) killed himself. Peter Gilmore wrote a tribute to the man complete with a "raised arm" salute, as if suicide was some honorable thing he did.

Next, he wrote something "out of this world" about publishing everyone's essays in a book and sending them a thank you note for it. He didn't know what royalties were. In other words, he was going to publish these people's essays as his own work. That resulted in every single person denying him the right to have their essays at all and asking me to put them on a website. Keep in mind, I still held the title of Mag in the COS when they asked me to do this. Well, the only websites I could put them on would be our own SR website or on Hr. Vad's website. None of these were in html format and no one, at that time, had a little program that could just DO the html (like Dreamweaver or Frontpage). Eventually all of the essays and even more that I got, ended up on the SR website. "Sir Chaos" was the only one that insisted that Tim keep his essay with Tim's own original writings and let them "stand or fall on their own." Sir Chaos, who also got a headache trying to read what Tim wrote, knew that it would fall. Sir Chaos's essay is not on the SR website. Tim's website, http://wolfathart.does.it is long gone. He never continued to pay for it.

Next, possibly in 2001, Tim Stewart apologized to me (I am not a forgiving person). He also admitted he was scared by Gilmore's large email, he admitted that to Jacqueline Davis and to me. (I am not a forgiving person, and I despise people that would be "scared" by such foolishness.)

Next, (definitely in 2001) Tim ran to Les Masters, the Magister of Lord Egan's First Church of Satan. Tim didn't know if he wanted to be gay or straight or just continue to be bisexual, but with Les he was a gay lover. Tim moved out of his parent's home and moved in with Les Masters. They lived together quite some time, a few years. At that time, Tim was "so over the COS" and "none of that mattered anymore" and "he had a misconception." He didn't seem to even have a conception that he should "feel something" about what he had done, including the way he tried to rip off a person he commissioned to make a website for him; nor did he seem to care that Jacqueline Davis paid off his debts for him.

Next, Les Masters quit the FCOS and joined the SR org. Tim, of course, did not (nor would he have been welcome after what he had done).

It was quickly evident, according to Les, that Tim, who didn't even have a G.E.D., could not hold a job - any job. Tim has severe ADHD, according to Les Masters.

The last I heard from Les (2004), Tim is trying to get SSI for disability. Tim is doing OK with his band.

Les stated categorically (in a conversation in 2004), that Tim really wanted to expose the fascism under his nose in the Church of Satan. It was everyone else that took it outside of the Church of Satan itself and made an objective project out of it: namely, "IS FASCISM SATANIC?"

Another favorite line of these people that are "curious about all this so long after it happened" is to focus on what Les said about his lover and focus on the unreadable intro and commentary that Tim wrote. That was Tim trying to be "intellectual" and failing miserably. Hardly anyone could even read what he had to say there - and it took two COS members and Casey to try to figure out what he was saying, paragraph by paragraph. Casey rewrote it first and it ended up being two small paragraphs basically asking, "Is fascism satanic?" Tim didn't like that. Finally, they just ASKED him what he wanted to say. So piece by piece, paragraph by paragraph, it got rewritten for Tim, but he approved it every step of the way - the words were his own spoken words. (I had absolutely NOTHING to do with editing or rewording a single sentence of what he wrote - I got a headache trying to read it and gave up and I was in no mood to take dictation over a telephone from him).

The fact is, "Morganne" (Norma, COS Grotto Master at the time) spoke to Tim Stewart quite a lot and he had no problem saying, speaking, what he wanted to say about his Project or anything else he was interested in. I spoke to him too, a little bit, and saw no sign that he did not know what he wanted to say. He simply questioned the thing Peggy Nadramia wrote about, "a fascist ideal and fascist mystique in satanism," he questioned the things he was running into - all of which were pro fascist and about some "ideal" or "mystique." He disagreed with that and wanted to show that fascism is not Satanic. That's about it. He didn't have "scrambled brains" as the current spin doctors would have it, at all.

He didn't know there were bona fide openly fascist/Nazi Satanic orgs out there at all. He didn't know about Jeff DeBoo, the anti-fascist par excellence of satanism. He didn't know about occultism in the Third Reich. He knew what he ran into and he wanted that questioned. It was all that simple. Keep in mind, he ran into it head on. The people he talked to and got essays from apparently did not.

What was his High School level idea of "fascism?" It was relatively very simple: a bunch of fascists called Nazis wanting to conquer the whole world and make everyone the same as themselves, not individuals. Fascist Nazis killed people who were different, different religion or race, and called them inferior. Fascist Nazis murdered gay people (Tim was openly bisexual and extremely hostile to any hint of homophobia). Tim had no problem communicating these ideas, very basis ideas. Tim also had no problem using an extreme leftist line when I mentioned "black racism is like Nazi mentality and they are also anti Jewish in the Nation of Islam" or "gay anti-straight people." His idea was that, "They are a persecuted minority, therefore they can not be racist." That simple and that firmly stated. He did not know the difference between "national socialism" and "fascism" but then most people don't know that either.

As for Tim's ADHD or ADD, I have this to say based on first hand observation. Tim had NO problem keeping on subject for hours when he was talking about what he WANTED to talk about. He had no problem paying attention for hours when he was hearing something he WANTED to hear about. Tim is a musician and has no problem with that or with practicing music (which takes patience and discipline and focus). He doesn't like the menial jobs he got. Tim has no problem tuning something out and even getting amnesia about the thing (or pretending to get that) when he doesn't want to be bothered with something, or own up to something he did. However, Tim had no problem remembering exactly what he did and apologizing to me for what he did. I don't think Tim has ADD or ADHD. I think Tim doesn't want to WORK in a menial job; or maybe doesn't want to work at all. That simple.

********************

If anyone would like to have a peek at just a few of the fascist things Tim Stewart encountered within the Church of Satan, something that is not hearsay and something that we feel can be put on here since the copyright owner is presently incarcerated - here it is. Ygraine Gidney and her husband William Gidney were going to perform this song and feature their "Auschwitz Dancers." Ygraine Gidney is a serially abused woman, abused by both first and second husband. The second husband, William Gidney, was incarcerated on child molestation charges.

I think that the ADL put a stop to this performance. Nonetheless, they tried to do it, announced they'd do it and this is published proof.

William Gidney, Priest in the Church of Satan. Ygraine Gidney, Priestess in the Church of Satan

Sieg Heil!
Lyrics & Music Copyright (c) 1999 by William Gidney, aka Jesus of Borg
SH appears on all copies of Crucimilation released circa May 1st, 2000

Everybody line up/Everybody get in file/Sieg Heil!
Everybody Goose Step/Everybody scream:/"Sieg Heil!"

(Chorus)
Sieg Heil/All Hail/Sieg Heil/All Hail!

Wave your hands in the air/Like ya just don't care/Sieg Heil!

Moshers in the Pit/Surfing everywhere/Fists saluting to sky/
Shout without a care:/"Sieg Heil!"

When you put me in a box/And try to classify me/
I only break free/NO, you can't define me.

You say I'm an enigma/I dare you to define it/
You say you can't/But, I've refined it.

You say that I've got "Class"/Cuz I'm a Big Spender/
But it doesn't take poise/To be poisoned by the Tender.

On the Upper East Side/Like a Bee is to that Honey/
Drowning in a sea of that/Jewish money.

So, like the Happy Hater/Wear a smile/
Be an instigator/And scream:/"Sieg Heil!"

(Chorus)

Everybody line up/Everybody get in file/Sieg Heil!
Everybody Goose Step/Everybody scream:/"Sieg Heil!"

(Chorus)

Yeah, I'm down "MC"/On my Zyklon B.
Keeps a tripping on me/Like on LSD

Zyklon B./Like on PCP/
With the colors dancing free/On my Zyklon B.

Zyklon B./Tripping on me/
Won't you take/A shower with me?

Zyklon B.

(Chorus)

--------------------

The ADL of the B'nai B'rith, a Jewish organization, did not think this song, or the "Auschwitz Dancers" that were going to dance to it, were a joke. Not at all. Please note that the ADL B'nai B'rith never had a problem with the movie,"The Producers."

********************

Tim also ran into this:

John Raptis of the "600 Club" asked COS Magister Jeff Nagy this question in an interview:
"Do you see fascism as an integral role of Satanism?"

Magister Nagy's answered:
"You mean like the strong subjugating the weak? Hell yes I do! One might as well ask,'do you see fascism alive in nature?' Of course you do. There is no equality anywhere on the planet, and with that, there are strong entities and weak one's. People should read 'Might is Right' by Ragnar Redbeard for examples of fascism and inequality in action. Nature is defined by strength, humanity by weakness. Non combative beings make no progress. Fascism is the introduction of Primal Law!"

----------

Talk about scrambled brains, Jeff Nagy doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about, he doesn't have a clue about what meritocracy is, or that it's absolutely not fascist. He doesn't have a clue that "egalitarianism" has nothing to do with sameness, but has to do with having an equal chance in the USA's meritocracy! He doesn't have a clue what constitutes biologically "strong" or "weak" organisms and obviously he doesn't have a clue that "fitness" is defined by the organisms left with descendents. He clearly has no knowledge of cooperative strategies that are more prevalent in nature than competitive strategies. And he'd clearly see how "strong" parasitic strategies, which seem "weak," are highly strategic when it comes to survival, since they are clearly under his big, fat, white-man's nose living on welfare and breeding like rabbits. He also doesn't seem to realize that big strong powerful dinosaurs were wiped out by a single random event having nothing to do with survival strategies! I.e., bad luck! And that, due to that, weak little primates rose into prominence! Mr. Nagy is so confused that it would be futile to try to unconfuse him with objective facts. This is a man, Mr. Nagy, that Anton LaVey personally knew and handed a Magister title to.

What Tim has to say, with his common sense words against fascism shows a brain a lot keener than Mr. Nagy's.

********************

This is the original Project One (Is Fascism Satanic) as it was seen by Peter Gilmore, after Ygraine Gidney bugged him to go look at it.

Also included is the "rather large email" that Peter Gilmore chose to write Tim Stewart after reading exactly what you will see here below, since this was available to be read by Gilmore. This is what is of import - these things below are what Peter Gilmore saw when he wrote Tim that "large email."

********************

Tim's introduction 2000 - his own words. This was posted by him on alt.satanism and on the COS message board "Letters to the Devil."

Project One (Introduction)

First, as we start the analysis of the ideal of Fascism within the satanic movement we must hear both sides of the fences historical account from a highly Objective viewpoint, which is only fair for both. You may or may not agree with what has to be said on either, but you aren't being spoon fed this information either, on both sides' parties. Of course the assertion made by Magistrate Nadramia in her applaud able speculation of the similarities between the both parties are noted and should be viewed for further historical, relevant data on the research at hand. In any case the Fascist, AKA Nazi movement initially had had highly appointed critiques which are too notable. One. The Fascists and Nazis politically believed in terminating a weaker race in the case of WWII this was the Jewish Race, who's thought to be a religion in some cases however scientists can now read by gene analysis that is and what is not Jewish. The best diagnosis they know possible for the stratification that they seek could be found in an ideal level of the most omnipotent political statement; this was Fascism. This Was Nazism. But, the ideal was founded upon certain magical meanings behind the ancient symbols involved. That, are looked upon as being "Evil" like the Sigil of Baphomet the Swastika was considered to be a very atrocious thing, the meanings though, are different, regardless of Herd Misconceptions.

"Amidst the Hitleran concept of strength through joy!" -ASL, The_Satanic_Bible

Indeed, the man was no fool when he offered the people freedom on a personal level, but the way that it was done was wrong as opposed to Church of Satan doctrine. Herd mentality as a sin in CoS doctrine could also be noted, how else would they be able to exterminate a race? On a personal level? Was this, was this a way for an ideal form of stratification? Is murder, real down to earth murder, stratification, and would it be justified through the actions founded upon a Fascistic point of view. Metaphorically speaking, of course it is justified through stratification, through the magical procedure of throwing curses, Hexes, and unlocking the doors with the key in the form of the postulate. The purpose of this letter is to ask participation on behalf of Church of Satan members and Non Church of Satan members who would like to become involved in data collection so an article may be written on the subject, both sides are encouraged to either send them to me through my E-Mail, if you would not like to receive credit and remain anonymous that is fine. [emphasis mine.]

E-Mail Observations and information to mrtimothystewart@hotmail.com

I look forward to writing this article, in any case. Thank you for participation.

Lets Make History...

"Iron Handed, Death Defiant, Mighty-Minded!"

Timothy Stewart Student, Satanic Combat Sciences

----------

This is the full header from his posting of this on alt.satanism:

From: Wolf At Hart <mrtimothystewartNOmrS...@hotmail.com.invalid>
Subject: Project One
Date: 2000/06/22
Message-ID: <0b2545ce.08d729b9@usw-ex0106-045.remarq.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 637531099
Bytes: 3060
X-Originating-Host: 172.159.129.225
X-Complaints-To: wrenab...@remarq.com
X-Trace: WReNphoon4 961659276 10.0.2.45 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:34:36 PDT)
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:34:36 PDT
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
X-Wren-Trace: eFRxWVhBBkwHGVJIWBlaSU5eV0VURxVQRXhTWElNTB1XHBdaV1QQDQobAQQDWhYRDBYKCRY=

Also, consider that he states that he, "looked forward to writing it." He was looking for essays that OTHER PEOPLE would write, not that he wrote. He already wrote what he wrote and it was virtually unreadable to everyone who tried.

--------------------

AN EDITED VERSION OF TIM'S INTRODUCTION: this is how it got edited by Casey and a few COS members (they took it paragraph at a time). Then it was read to Stewart on a phone and he approved it. What he said over voice chat and phone was clear enough. He wanted to do a project that asks "is fascism satanic or not." That's what people got out of what he wanted to do.

Project One. Introduction edited version:

When I first heard of the ideal of fascism being satanic I questioned the reason. What was to become of these fascist Satanists?

So there I declared I would find out other people's opinions on the subject and somewhere in between I would form my own.

Since the Project itself consists of E mails submitted to me, for the Project, its sole intent is to work like a "message board" of essays, which the applicant merely states their opinions or facts.

There indeed is difference between both opinion and fact and my motives behind Project One was to separate the two from each other when embarking upon this view. Although constructing something of the sort would be hard to keep the differing views balanced in debate; I set out to give a fair trial on the matter, and yes, by all means I am still taking in applicants for the project.

If the Project is viewed as being "one sided" I cannot be held to blame for this, and with this known I cannot be held responsible if I did try.

I questioned the integrity of using the swastika as a Satanic symbol: Should we be seeing Satanists run around in white robes burning crosses on doorsteps because there is "power" in doing this, or using any KKK imagery in Satanism? After all, the KKK is controversial is it not? The same token for Nazi symbol, the swastika: How many people died in World War II: over 5,860,000 forgotten? These numbers are nauseating. Would self proclaimed Satanists align themselves with the nazis, who single handedly picked out what they referred to as "the others" (keeping in mind that Satan translate to "the other, the adversary")? That it is common knowledge that the Jewish were not the only ones held in concentration camps.

So before reading any further I'd like you to ponder the same question I have for some time: Is Fascism satanic? So, until next time.

Lets Make History.

Timothy Epperhart Wolf At Hart

====================

Tim's original COMMENTARY This was apparently going to be put up at the very end of all the essays that Tim collected, however he already had his commentary written!. Of course, no one would put the commentary up, since he first would have to have a lot of essays!

Project One Commentary

This is a rather signifigant turning point, here I must conjure forth a detail element to fill in the blanks, evaluate the responses and give life to something that hits home base with a lot of Satanists world wide in and outside of the Church of Satan. What you just witnessed you probably already understood as history displays first hand, not only what a fasces does, and it is fairly easy to see, in those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to what kind of people as such,and the Christian Coalition did not make it up, their ancestors did. It is due apparent in the inquisition days. Your freedom may be free, but someone is paying for it: people did. Where are they now? Who killed them?

There is no dissimilarity regardless of the "moral foundations" the intention was to make an "All is One" Union of the dictatorship within the context of those who did govern, and brainwash those whom opposed the ideals and they share the same intentions. If not, they would kill them like on old times "convert or Die," and readers paying attention can see this and can see the similarity. But those that did die now say they cannot do this anymore, but they would if they could. They died and paid for freedom with they're blood. And their vehemence shows that the Fascists they would do it gladly. The Satanic Fascist faction makes it plain they would be glad to silence the oposition. "You better shutup!" "You better drop this project." "You can leave if you don't like it."Some might think to individually, or do think that an All is One union would actually do some good for the movement itself, for what: Fascism means putting something in front of the self, not Satanism. Satanism means you earn it, fascism means someone tells you it is so, they are at war, like us. Further more, because of the similarity of thier doctrines with, in the past, enemies of satanism, the so called nazi satanic revisionists have wore out there welcome.

Some people still wonder if there is, for real, some faction in the cos. Are factions just another way of putting stratification, that's the weak getting the swift kick and the right, whom at the same time. That can be an interestng question. But the one reading this clearly should see that sratification it isn't, it's all the same. Make might ride upon the steed of victory as we will when this faction is done away with. Victory, now there's an expression I hear quite often. Triumph, hunted out by those that move violently and thrive for victory, they have a common goal in mind: Winning. what are they fighting: They're fighting for victory. Who are they fighting? They are fighting their own individual selves and trying to make it look like strong. They are not strong, like others who tried it before. the way they see it the identification with a political doctrine and its people that sought out the elimination of a what was supposedly a supposedly "weaker race" fills them to the brim with some feeling of superiority and they take this to be in form Satanic. Self-delusion is not ever and isn't a Satanic value and self-deluded they are those who posses the "personal power" these would-be Fascists lust after feel no need to adopt postures designed to showcase that said power only the posers feel the need to pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey of those who practiced political Fascism in the past it has never been a political movement of the strong only weak and sorry people believed this way.

Think too an interesting side thought is that these people are making an idol out of some system of thought and practice that would see them as its first victims no genuine political Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live." Look at them, they were weak, all those that tried before were beaten, just like these new ones will be when the infection is cured. Do we want to cure the infection or do we let it run out a course that it is on? First amendment freedoms- Freedom of religion, freedom from the establishment of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of petition and assembly, and freedom of association-Are at the heart of the democratic process.Freedom:Equality: the same thing for the government as for the organization, 200 year old Satanism, built into the us Constitution. Not fascism,the opposite and enemy. The government we have we make conform, should the organization be let to wallow and be fascist? I think not. the first amendment freedoms are not apparent in a place under the fascist Nation, or here more approximately put a movement. If there ever was a faction in the satanic movement, this is it. Though I well remain skeptical of calling this "Faction" I would provoke those minds and even dare say it is like the North and South America when the civil war raged about, and fought for independence, just as we must do from this faction. And we will have victory, as earlier Satanists before us. The north did win, just think what would have happened if the south won.

Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such tyranny as it was was no longer to be tolerated or accepted so they pledged themselves at the cost of their lives fortunes and sacred honor to freedom from the tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government they formed in the middle part of Revolution they then built on principles Satanists do claim as their own: Freedom, Equality. Freedom to Do as Thou Wilt. Equality all have an equal right to Liberty. Those who practice the principles of Freedom and Equality come together to preserve them, wherever and whenever they are threatened as we must do in the face of a fascist infection. It is time to kick some ass.

Again, that reader that is paying attention to what is written here will take note that nowhere in that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist ideal. Indeed too it is the truth that the two are anathema to each other. On a note it is of irony is that very freedom and liberalism that the Fascist faction finds such to be an abhorrent thing that allows the Satanic organization that they infect still to exist! All religions are equal under the law. The State should not interfere that the liberals say this. It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common with the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction infecting a Satanic organization. What is to be done? The members must now then take back the organization like how it was. Unless they must accept the fact that they're organization has been usurped and then they must conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely try to make you do! Or they will separate themselves and form a new faction. or they walk away from the public movement all together. The question I put tothose that are the readers is this: Which action is the correct you will take? I say it is time to start kicking some ass. Only you can decide.

Let's Make History

Timothy Stewart Epperhart, SCS

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Tim's above passages were also edited by Casey and I think 2 COS members who both tried to make heads or tails out of it. Keep in mind, this was supposed to be a commentary written at the END of the entire collection of essays - essays that he didn't even have yet! So anyone trying to edit it - had a very very hard time trying, since there were NO ESSAYS - not yet. He wrote the end of his essay BEFORE he even had essays.

Stewart's Commentary edited version

Now we come to the end where it is necessary to evaluate these responses and fill in the blanks. I am sure some of the points raised will hit home with many readers, both those who are members of the CoS and those who are not.

Some of what you've read you probably already understood, since history is rife with examples of the affects of Fascism and it is fairly easy to see, in those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to. Regardless of the differences between the "moral foundations" of those Fascists in the past and the present Fascist infection, as I see it, they share the same intentions. That is, to form an "All is One" union or dictatorship at the highest levels in the organization that would trickle down, via brainwashing, and a "toe the line or get out" party line to the rank-and-file.

The reader who is paying attention will note the similarity in this doctrine and outlook to the early Christian doctrine of "Convert or Die." The proponents of this Organizational Fascism cannot practice that doctrine in full in the real world because those in the past that objected to this tyranny bought our freedom from that fate with their blood.

Were it still a valid option, however, the vehemence of the Satanic Fascist faction makes it fairly plain that it would be a method joyously utilized by them to silence the opposition! "You better shut up!" "You better drop this project." "You can leave if you don't like it." This doctrinal similarity with the avowed enemies of the Satanic movement in the past, is a large contributing factor to the feeling, on my part and on the part of many, that these so-called Nazi Revisionist Satanists have worn out their welcome.

Some still pose the question of whether there is, indeed, a Fascist faction in the CoS. What of stratification? Would that not be a definition of what is going on within the organization? It is an interesting question. I would ask the reader to keep the following point in mind as he/she ponders the question of stratification: the goal of Fascism is "sameness." In no way does "sameness" equate with stratification.

The members of this Fascist faction would have us believe that by belonging to their faction they are demonstrating some kind of "personal power." In their eyes, the identification with a political doctrine and people that sought the elimination of a supposedly "weaker race" invests them with some feeling of superiority, and they take this to be Satanic. Self-delusion is never a Satanic value, and self-deluded they are.

Those who posses the "personal power" these would-be Fascists lust after, feel no need to adopt postures designed to showcase said power; only the posers feel the need to pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey of those who practiced political Fascism in the past; it has never been a political movement of the strong.

An interesting aside is that these people are idolizing a system of thought and practice that would see them as its first victims. No genuine political Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live." The political and real ideal of Satanism was set forth over 200 years ago and is rooted in the concept of Freedom. Specific examples of those Freedoms were built into the Constitution of the United States: freedom of speech, religion, the press, and assembly and petition. Are we to accept any less from an organization, specifically a Satanic one that supposedly holds the Self sacred, than we demand from our government? I think not!

Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such tyranny was no longer to be tolerated or accepted. They pledged themselves, at the cost of "their lives, fortunes and sacred honor," to freedom from the tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government they formed in the midst of Revolution was built on principles Satanists claim as their own: Liberty, Equity and Unity. Liberty: Do as Thou Wilt. Equity: all have an equal right to Liberty. Unity: those who practice the principles of Liberty and Equity come together to preserve them, wherever and whenever they are threatened.

Again, the reader who is paying attention will note that nowhere in that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist ideal. Indeed, the two are anathema to each other. On an ironic note, it is that very freedom and liberalism that the Fascist faction finds so abhorrent, that allows the Satanic organization that they infect to exist! "All religions are equal under the law. The State should not interfere." Liberals say this. It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common with the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction infecting a Satanic organization.

What is to be done? The members must either take back the organization, or they must accept the fact that their organization has been usurped and conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely try to make you do! Or they separate themselves and form a new faction. Or they walk away from the public movement all together. The question I put to the reader is this: which action is the correct action? Only you can decide.

Let's Make History

Timothy Stewart Epperhart, SCS

(Keep in mind that he wrote this, and approved of this editing over the phone, BEFORE he got any essays at all! So it seems Tim made up his mind about it, just as his lover Les Masters confirmed!)

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This following was some of Tim's preliminary "email essay" method - to ask questions and try to get answers. This was the FIRST that I, Tani Jantsang, actually participated in his fascism project after hearing about it from him in a chatoom. Note he keeps referring to me as Magistra. After seeing what kind of mixed up, whatever that he was asking me (you can tell by what I said to him) - I tried to get him actual ESSAYS, not question/answer junk. He said he wanted essays. He didn't seem to know WHAT an essay was. It's not question/answer by email.

Email interview with Tani Jantsang (COS honorary non-member Mag at the time) and Tim Stewart, 2000:

Tim Stewart asks: The reason I am asking these questions is that so you may reply, so that the readers may actually understand if they too have some of the same questions that I have, ok?

Answer from TJ: Sure, but I don't see what more there is to say here. Either you put up with assholes or you don't. I'm not saying Nazis are assholes. I'm saying that the Nazi or Fascist element in the COS that you dealt with are assholes. Who doesn't know this? I got more complaints about it in 3 years (present date, 2000) than the COS has members. LOL. There are Nazis in other Satanic organizations too: I have no idea if they are also assholes.

Tim Stewart asks: Are they trying to destroy the CoS, and most importantly when will these people come out of the closet and reveal themselves, or are they right in front of our faces?

Answer from TJ: They? The Christian Coalition? The Christian Coalition is not only in front of your face and our faces, but they got Jeb Bush, the Governor of Florida, voted in despite Buddy McCay and others telling everyone he was a Christian Fascist - something that Jeb Bush didn't even bother to deny! In fact, that won Jeb Bush the Governorship! What I just explained (initial letter in Part One) about the coalition of Christians banded together is what they THEMSELVES constantly talk about with admiration of their own success! It's no secret - it's not in any closet. Anyone who is not aware of this LIVES in a closet! What do you think that a coalition is? It is a FASCES. OK, what is a fasces? The image is of a bundle of branches tied together. Imagine each Christian variation, each little Christian church in every little town, is a branch, and other religions (main ones, like Catholic and even some Jews) are other branches. Branches are easy to break when they are single branches. COMBINE these branches into one tight bunch and tie them together. Now you have something as strong as a club: this is called a "fasces."* When the fasces is not branches, but is organizations of many Christian organizations (which have many people in them) - it's called a COALITION. Christian Coalition. Christian Fascism! This is a correct term. (*Yeah, yeah, the Romans had this. The Huns and Jenghis Khan also had it with arrows tied together representing ALL the clans joined as one conquering force.) If you mean the people you've been running into in the COS, they are out of the closet. Don't you read the Black Flame? You talked to them and they were pretty open (albeit heavy handed) about it. They are in front of your face, obviously.

Tim Stewart asks: In the eighties, a great disdain grew over the flower power, peace, love and dope mentality that persisted in the 1960's (This was also evident in the CoS back then!) The symbolic representation could not, ever, smash us real Satanists within -or- standing on the outside looking-into it. Now, those on the outside looking in or on the inside looking outside could very well be the problem presenting themselves in a position a great hierarchy, a position of power and superiority which would catch the attention of somebody that nobody in the COS wants to be involved with, but in this case it is too late, but this can not be handled in terms of Citizenship but it must be dealt with from the HP.

Answer from TJ: I have no idea if the HP is aware of factions within the CoS, especially factions that want to MAKE the CoS into the NSWPP or KKK! When LaVey became aware of a little bit of it, he threw some people out; he threw Bruce Ithier out on his ass in 1976 or 1977 - Ithier was a total Nazi. And Michael Aquino has a bunch of letters LaVey wrote him against these types sneaking into the COS, he mentioned that on alt.satanism openly. We couldn't get copies. But they are openly back in the CoS again and probably in other organizations as well. I DO know that the real neo Nazis are aware of it and they DO name names, and I doubt that the ADL or people like Morris Dies are not aware of it. I think these would-be Nazis are a tiny minority in the COS and possibly in other Satanic orgs, and some whole Satanic orgs are openly Fascist as Ms. Selwyn explains and as many admit, but they are VERY LOUD - they are NOT LONERS; they are attention seekers. See below for comment on "druggie utopia culture."

Continue TJ answer: Dealt with? The HP dealing with it? (I do have a knack for PHOPHECY heh heh....) They'll deal with YOU, Stewart; you were already told to shut up and watch out by more than one person. You were called a spy for hell's sakes! Too bad you didn't log all of it save emails with full headers!

Tim Stewart asks: It's also my understanding that wasn't the intentions to begin with, an admiration for Charles Manson a Cultist who compelled people to kill for him, and he also killed is a rather bit far fetched ESPECIALLY to treat him as a gifted philosopher.

Answer from TJ: this was primarily the doing of Nikolas Schreck. Charlie Manson was a loser and a misfit, and only the most uneducated of fools would find merit in ANYTHING that man had to say. He should have simply and quietly been put to death for his crimes. I remember back when it all happened. Manson was a destructive person and IS NOW a parasite living the high life in jail. Government should SHOOT HIM like a clay pigeon.

Tim Stewart asks: One thing they do have a point is, he did fuck up their vivid pipe dreams of a Utopia of a drug using society. Is that the point? No, he killed people and USED these symbols, engraved them into his fore head and all of a sudden he's some kind of "mascot for Satanism in the eighties"? or mascot for Satanism in general. Explain that.

Answer from TJ: Charles Manson was a drug user himself. This is only the idea of those who are completely unaware of the NON-drug activities and tremendous things happening in the country back then. For some very strange reason, the youth of THIS generation have a total lack of information about these non-drug MAJOR happenings in the country! I find that remarkable. WHO has kept this information from the youth of today? Major things happened in the country that had nothing to do with drugs: the anti-war movement, the Women's rights movement (not feminism), the alternative religion movement, WHICH COS IS NOT ONLY INTRICATELY A PART OF BUT OWES ITS VERY EXISTENCE TO, and the Gay and Black rights movements. None of these things involved drugs or pipe dreams of a utopia. The hippie drug scene was mostly a pack of Cultural Christians, spoiled little bourgeois brats with too much time on their hands, or Drug Guru professors on the payroll of the CIA. They had NO political awareness at all.

Tim Stewart asks: The Government is in favor of the Christians already. Let the churches pay taxes, see how fast the national debt would be wiped out. You think they would be in favor of that? Hell no. And what would become of this country if we put the Christians in more power, say, how long has it been anyway since the last Inquisition? This is all covered in The First Amendment, I protect that right, put them in more power and see, watch it all just fade away like it never even... existed!

Answer from TJ: I was hoping that ALL Satanists already knew this fact!!! I do believe that the Wiccan and Pagan communities know it all TOO well. Are they more aware of the real world than Satanists are? And if they are: WHY? Perhaps they are not the ones living in a pipe dream at all.

Tim Stewart asks: So what if they do take the money raised the wages for the working class as opposed to the industries that would get the profit. That's their right to profit, how about this, shut down all the large industries companies, have the working class lose all their jobs due to the fact that the people who own these have no way of paying up due to the fact that his money is going into paying the working class citizen 1 and 2 distributing supplies, however not as many supplies, therefore not as much work FOR the working class citizen.

Answer from TJ: lol - have you been reading Karl Marx? That COULD happen. What would happen if it did? REVOLUTION!!! Have you ever lived through a riot, gotten shot at by many bullets and shot people back? I have. It's NOT fun. Understand something: these "big industries" are NOTHING without people working IN them MAKING the junk they make and sell at HUGE profits - profits they never share with the people who MADE the junk! They also get the metal and petroleum for plastic parts and etc. from pure exploitation of 3rd world labor and resources! It's a spiraling vortex of consumption. And when overproduction crashes into underconsumption by people who can't afford to buy the junk? That's a "crisis in capitalism." And when industries move away to hire cheaper labor? What if those workers refuse to work? Nothing gets made without the TOILING HANDS that make the junk. The industries are NOTHING without the working classes! What good is a factory with equipment and no one to work the equipment? And what good are millions of new cars if no one buys them?

Tim Stewart asks: So guess what, Mr. Pat Buchannan can go to Hell. I'm all in favor for making work available for everybody that means everybody who has the right toward advancement. "Every dog has it's day" and the Christians had theirs, they fucked it up, they know. They bit the very hand that fed them, the people, the individuals whom got slaughtered throughout the two thousand centuries. It was illegal for Social Darwinism to be taught in schools, in the twentieth century it persisted, remember the "Satanic Panic" scare? They raided Aquino's house, looked throughout all of his personal belongings, and even DARED to mention "his living room was painted black" took him to court, what happened? They didn't have an inch of evidence against him. And all this despite He is Not a Satanist! You know what that is, that's self destruction. You spelled it out so everyone could hear, loud and clear what a klippoth is. Just imagine how they'd react to the Real Satanists!

Answer from TJ: there is no question here - I agree with the sentiment. Social Darwinism is not an evolutionary biological reality. It is nothing but a SOCIAL concept - it is pseudo-science! It is Darwin grossly misinterpreted and taken outside of real biology. (Read a real biologist: Niles Eldredge: "Redefining Darwin." He explains it all in simple words and explains what "social" Darwinism is and how that pseudoscience came into being.) Oh, Pat Buchannan is very pro labor for working class American citizens, by the way. Aquino is a Satanist of another kind. And some of your COS people actually blamed Michael Aquino for his own persecution regarding Presidio. They called him by the names used in the Presidio case, and so forth. One present COS member, formerly a TOS member who turned Catholic for awhile (before joining the COS) even insisted that the SRA stories were real. I saw some of this printed out, and heard about the rest of it where they blamed Aquino for his own persecution. If I had been online at the time, I'd have stuck up for Aquino as a HERO that fought for ALL of Satanism, not just his TOS. He deserves a medal for it.

TJ continues answer: If you think raiding Dr. Aquino's house is an outrage - consider this: they COULD raid your house, arrest you, hold you without bail and no avenue to legal help. They COULD shoot you. They COULD give you a lobotomy or electro shock therapy. They COULD torture you. They COULD. And in many many places in the world - THEY DO. You know we chat with a fellow called SmokingMirror. He mailed $100 in an envelope to the Church of Satan. The letter never left Columbia. They came for him. They arrested him. They interrogated him. And he can't leave unless the DAS (like our FBI) clears him of his CRIMINAL RECORD. But what is Smoke's crime? He wrote to the Church of Satan. The police there COULD have shot him. They could have done anything they wanted to do. What did the COS do? They treated Smoke like a pariah, like they treated you. He's not afraid to say "to hell with that." He washed his hand of them. Get that through your heads. The Christian Coalition is a reality - they are POWERFUL and they aim to take over this government. And what would they want to make here? Christian Fascism. WAKE UP! (I betcha they don't wake up.....) Let them find any excuse to reinstate the old Co-intel-pro and heh, they'll do it in a minute, and it will be worse with the technology we have today.

Tim Stewart says: Again, here this is not a very surprising thing to me, not at all. As for Jeb Bush winning despite the fact he wouldn't bother denying, what is there to deny when there is nothing. Fact is, as long as we are the Minority, and the Christian Coalition is in power we can't do anything About it. The people voted for him, the herd minded fools who swarm like viscous bees protecting their Queen. And in this case they did just that. What can we do about that? Mag. Tani Jantsang has mentioned in her article "Mastering Satanism" that they are in fact Satanic organizations, this cannot be doubted, and not even in the least it's seriousness.

Answer from TJ correcting his misconception: These are not Satanic organizations. They are Christian organizations but they no longer represent the majority of their own Christian people. That does not mean they are Satanic. They aren't. If the lay Christians, the hard working honest Christian people, knew what these organizations were up to, they'd call them traitors to the USA. They won't get hip to it, they'll be duped and follow along with it.

Tim Stewart continues: The significance is founded those who would disorient us and weave their way into "the established system" and cause all of the trouble they can, and even perhaps use controversies to attract attention. Indeed, Satanism is a controversy, but is it a controversy in the form of burning churches down, proclaiming that one race is more "strong" then the other and what is strong, how could those foolish ingrates have misinterpreted "Might is Right" by the Honorable Ragner Redbeard. Right is Right, and reason is in season for every last individual who thinks they can tear down the Infernal Empire upon which the Doktor Anton Szandor LaVey founded, dumb founded dip shits scurry about in their herd, there Fasces, and right wing political movements- and What do they know about US anyway? The controversy? I'll tell you right now what controversy is, controversy is murdering over a five thousand or more people for the sake of religion for the mistake that many have misinterpreted "Might" over the last 2000 years!!! The "controversy" isn't found in these so called impotent Magical symbols, if they ever were Magical symbols, and they were used for that specific belief that revolves and encircles it then it very well is not controversy! No! No! No! It is wrong if it is to be used for that specific purpose, "Behold the cross, what does it represent: Pallid incompetence hanging on a tree" and as long as their incompetence reins, not much can be done about it. Eat it out like Cancer, exterminate them, and every Fascist Satanic individual will be, and might be Might, but it certainly will never be Left, nor right nor anything in between the two. Yes, it will be under a right wing mentality, a Christian mentality, Genocide, getting it? Inquisition? The riddle isn't that hard to answer, you would have to be stupid not to see that, and stupidity should-be-painful. And in their case, self-destruction, it is, and will be. The Governor of Florida flourishes on what is Might, he thrives upon their very existence, the only thing there is left to do is ADVANCE, advancement is the key, and the combination to open it is different for every person, the postulate is undefiled Power, Undefiled Wisdom and most importantly the use of our First Amendment right that we all have to exorcise in order to advance and it's up to you if you would like to open that door, but never Misplace the key.

Answer from TJ: And if We The People (the majority) have no clue what the Amendments are? Then We The People will be duped, deceived and not even know what we have given up. Remember: "IT" can happen here too. Americans are far too comfortable in America to REALIZE that. That is why I occasionally post a sarcastic post saying something like "Pat Robertson SHOULD WIN" which is in effect saying that I'm HAILING the Christian Coalition's most FANATICAL faction! I PERSONALLY would stand nothing to lose if he did win - AND TAKE OVER. All that would be needed is to fabricate an emergency (Islamic terrorist bombing, or linking "ALL the Negroes" to Islamic terrorism - a good excuse to round them all up, something like that, Islamic terrorists sneaks in posing as a Mexican illegal alien, etc.), and declare a State of Emergency: in which case the President of the USA BECOMES a dejure DICTATOR - DEJURE!. But the great majority of people in the COS? What would they lose? Ha Ha Ha. Everything.

Tim Stewart comments on previous reply: So what your saying makes sense in terms of these individuals having a Fasces, yes, however it must be understood that a lot of Christians can't even agree with each other most of the time, and when they aren't arguing what "path" leads to Heaven or Hell, I can see this type of thing happening.

Answer from TJ: RUBBISH! These are trivial disagreements on spiritual matters. They DO FOLLOW THEIR LEADERS AND DO AS THEY ARE TOLD: GOOD SHEEP! And what their leaders are preaching has NOTHING to do with heaven or hell - OR Jesus! It's MIGHT MAKES RIGHT! Brute Force. Take Over. FIND ME the Fundamentalist Christian that truly believes in heaven, hell, the soul and Armageddon who DOES NOT put money in his flesh and blood 4 year old's worldly bank account for that kids FUTURE worldly college education! HA! So much for the spirit.

Tim Stewart continues on previous reply: The Catholic Church is trying to do exactly that, right now, however, I do not think it is going to happen where it got so bad where I couldn't get a job and pay my bills on time, and most importantly live a Satanic lifestyle.

Answer from TJ: I hope these don't serve to be famous last words!

Tim Stewart continues on previous reply: But Magistra Jantsang does have a highly valid point, in which every Satanist should take note of the Highly valued essay entitled "Mastering Satanism" which gets into how Satanic Organizations in this day and age are being surrounded, it's called Christian Encirclement. This is hardly a joke and I feel that essay should be a must read for those Satanists reading this article.

Answer from TJ: Dream on. Most of those preaching this fascist rubbish never even read the hallmark article Roots One of Satanism, nor have they read Evolution Christians and Setians. They don't want to KNOW anything at all. They want to Play Fascist. They HATE our Satanic stuff and think that the respect we EARNED came from the mere commentary polemic on HrVad's website (sentences and paragraphs, replied to queries, stuck together). It didn't. Why do they dislike us? Because we refute all they are: we refute Cruxtoids. These morons, even the best of them, don't realize that they are thoroughly in tune with the HERD REACTION to liberal draconian FASCIST tyranny previously forced on the nation in certain areas of social life (not all areas) - forced - why? in order to CAUSE this easily predicted reaction? They are such PUPPETS yet they have no clue who their puppet masters are? They don't even realize they are being manipulated! That's pretty pathetic! The holders of the strings PULL and they REact. They are thoroughly IN TUNE with the mass herd reaction right now: AND too stupid to even realize it. And LIKE the herd, which needs religious justification or pseudo-scientific justification, they are having delusions about hierarchies in nature! IDIOTS! STUPID! In which case, I HOPE ROBERTSON WINS - just so that I may see these idiots languish in concentration camps. I'd even volunteer for the job of guard, praising JEEEEEEzuus all the way. As a Serpent, I'm thoroughly in favor of GIVING Adam just what he wants: APPLES - i.e., a CURSE upon his generations. Shit, I'd BUY a gas chamber and rent it out cheap.

Tim Stewart asks: I do understand that, but what I'm trying to say is there is a very high chance that could happen. Take away the money that would usually go into paying the people who make the products for the people who make the goods, take away their power, where do they go, they go to where to profit is, why, because there's not as much money involved. On the other hand if we would lower the rate, make living a little simpler for the working citizen, then yeah, however the construction of houses wouldn't be a very popular endeavor if they wouldn't get paid as much as they do now. They get paid good money. And so do those who are getting a profit, who never share the money, but again, that is their right toward advancement, in that system there should never even be any people holding other people down, because when you hold it down, that's not going to erase the problem. Because if you put that ONE industry over power of everything else, and that is where the profit is, what happens if they are a Christian? How many active Christians are there today? Have I ever lived through a riot? I have never even seen a riot, riot is anarchy, pure anarchy, and even in without a Government the Herd will still need something to stand by. We have a government, they have something to stand by, however the government is not standing by them- The Atheists and every single alternative religious creed will be on them, and they would never hear the end of it, and that is good. Hey, they're standing behind us, the Satanic, the Wiccan, the Pagan, the Atheist, the philosopher, the... Whatever! You get the idea. What the problem here is, is that regardless of this fact we are still the minority, and while they might not have that much power over us, they will continually try, oh, they will try, they'll try until they get blue in the face, and in some cases they have one, the anti abortionists fuck'n bomb the Abortion Clinics 'cause they feel what they believe is "right" Pro Life? Yeah, whatever, Life is made of all kinds of different and difficult choices; the ones who are doing this aren't even a problem! The ones with political pull are. And I'm not just talking about the abortion issue either, I'm talking about The Christian Coalition and Encirclement, and how some people fail to recognize these people by their own true faces.

Answer from TJ: You need to learn more about economic realities. Money always manages to go AWAY from the workers who produce everything - and it ends up in the bank accounts of those who produce NOTHING - either those at the top that "own a building and hire workers to work in it" or those kept on the bottom - the underclasses. When times get tight, the working class has an easy scapegoat: the underclasses - the parasites. Yet the BIG Parasite McDonald's in one year gets more welfare than ALL the single welfare mothers put together - and that's only one company. Corporate welfare is hidden - but the welfare queen is very visible - an easy target. This is getting way off the topic of Satanism and "fascist ideals."

TJ: Look, END of dialogue. This is impossible. Your questions are hard to unravel. How about you just get ESSAYS from people? Let people just write essays instead of this question and answer thing.

[Part of this was also posted to alt.satanism by Tim Wolf At Hart Citizen Stewart].

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Essay from Norma Gomez: "Morganne" (COS active member or Priestess? and Grotto Master). 2000 (She resigned around 2004 after the incident with Rev. Blumenthal and the info that he was previously convicted of child molestation before LaVey handed him a Priesthood in the COS and was now again convicted, and in jail. She resigned due to other factors also, not sure what. Vincent Crowley, former Magister in the COS, resigned the COS due to what he called "Peter's puffed up attitude." He is her best friend.)

Satanic Value in Fascism?

The issue has arisen among Satanists of the possible role fascism might play in the satanic philosophy of the Church of Satan. Fascist emblems employed by certain individual Satanists have moved some to consider and others to criticize the validity behind associating the two ideologies with one another. Yet it is first necessary to define terms before attempting to wrestle with the matter any further. Those terms, of course, are Satanism and Fascism.

For the Satanist, there is no need to define the first term since anyone who has read the works of Anton LaVey and agrees with its principles will for the most part stand on common ground with his diabolical compatriots.

As to the meaning of the second term, however, Satanists might perceive its ideology in different ways. The first step I believe will be to establish what fascism is and secondly, to determine if there is any chemistry between it and the philosophy of Anton LaVey.

The word Fasces gives us our present day word Fascism. A Fasces was the ancient Roman symbol of official authority and power. It was represented by an axehead enveloped by a bundle of elm or birch rods, bound together by a red strap.

Here is the key: Official authority, not individual autonomy. The definition of fascism's political ideology that I am most familiar with describes it as one of supremacy of the state over the individual, the latter only finding purpose and self-fulfillment through absolute obedience to the present ruling power, usually a dictator. Sexual activity for one's own pleasure is not encouraged , but only as it serves the purposes of the state. Every system of thought which has sought to control the minds of the people such as Christianity, Communism, Islam, etc., has employed like restrictions on humanity's greatest pleasure. This allows those in power to exploit pent up sexual energies for their own machinations by channeling those energies into state approved functions. Military values are highly lauded, but not for personal glory as one would find, say, among the American Indians, but rather a bloodlust for victory for one's own nation and race at the expense if necessary of one's own life. Cosmopolitan ideals, self-aggrandizement and rationalism are discouraged as decadent and valueless.

Even the most superficial overview of the philosophy of the Church of Satan and that of fascism must inevitably arrive at the logical conclusion that the two ideologies in their essential essence are completely incompatible. LaVey spoke of a joyous life lived through self realization through one's own efforts and freedom achieved through the questioning of those values idolized by both church and state. Fascism only allows joy and self realization in service to the nation state.

Should America ever become a totalitarian state, and it shows much promise in this direction through recent ominous developments in the War on Drugs, and this countries continual efforts at censorship of the arts and encouragement of ultra patriotism, it would certainly display less, not more tolerance towards Satanism than the present semi-democracy does today. The best case scenario would find Satanist's driven underground for fear of unbearable legal and social reprisals as they would no longer have the first constitutional amendment to offer any protection as we ... barely....have today. The worst case scenario would reveal every openly displayed Baphomet behind barbed wire.

The next logical question then would be, what attraction does fascism or national socialism as it was called in Hitler's Germany, hold for certain Satanist's? Whereas totalitarian political philosophies have as much in common with Satanism as do Christianity, Humanism, Communism, and any other self debasing school of thought, there may be ironically enough, certain Satanic applications of Fascist symbolism and peripheral accoutrements which might have a certain validity for some. For instance, LaVey spoke of certain objects as having a "Satanic look" about them, a car might look satanic, or perhaps a house. Many people have commented favorably on the sharp appearance of Germany's second World War uniforms. They were, of all the uniforms of all the nations of the World, perhaps the most Satanic in appearance. Fascism is often accompanied by racial supremacist views. In American culture, where the white male is sometimes openly vilified as the oppressor, employing the imagery of white pride through a swastika may serve as a counter-balance to the hysterical anti-racist rhetoric of the political left-wing. Another possible undercurrent of shock value may be attractive to some. Many Satanist's thrive on shocking our prim and proper polite society and certainly this can be accomplished through the emblems of Nazism. There is also the possibility that some Satanist's extract from Fascism the concept of strong central authority and discard the rest. One envisions here the policies of Niccolo Machiavelli as a Satanic political guideline.

To reiterate, there might be certain ways I have just mentioned in which the frills of totalitarian government may be used in a somewhat Satanic fashion, yet this is a far cry from wedding that ideology to that of Anton LaVey's. Concerning philosophies compatible with those of the Church of Satan I would rather look to the existentialist such as Nietzsche & Camus, as examples of de-facto satanic philosopher's. In summation, my position is that the images of Fascism offer an immediate and superficially sinister first impression but have really little to do with Satanic values.

Personally, I would distance myself from all the extreme right wing symbolism as it will only confuse others and give people the wrong idea concerning what Satanist's are about or where we are coming from. If I tried hard enough and let my sense of discrimination slumber, I could probably find something Satanic to extract from even Christianity itself, but that would be frivolous and would associate me with something that I am ultimately opposed to, and so what would be the value in that?

Norma J. Gomez

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This is from more questions Stewart emailed to Casey, Ole and others - and the replies of everyone else that Tim sent the questions to with the replies separated into just who said what to whom:

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From Casey Ley "OneDarkness" replying to emails Tim sent her. (Tim's questions are in quotes and "Tim said" precedes his questions. The rest is from Casey Ley. (Staunch independent at the time, now in SR)

Tim said: -"First, as we start the analysis of the ideal of Fascism within the satanic movement...."-

Casey: These two words together "Fascism, Satanism" are an oxymoron. The two are at opposite ends of a spectrum, not as any yin/yang, but opposite in the sense that they completely cancel each other out.

Casey: Some background: Satanism has at its heart the perfect ideal of Darkness. The Yin that became. As it became, it stretched forth. In its stretching, it created. What it created was a Light born of Darkness, a Bright Darkness, or "The Black Flame." The Darkness possesses itself and is whole. The Light is made manifest FROM Darkness and is only whole while it PARTAKES of Darkness. The two together are the Yin/Yang of existence. The two together are the "Creation" we know. The two together, like everything whole, share in and make manifest the "Will" of "Creation." That is, UNITED with Darkness, the Light (Black Flame, in this context) is a creative Force. Can there be Yin alone? Yes. Darkness was before, is now and will be after. Darkness is ALWAYS capable of "Becoming" something different. It is the Ultimate source of ALL that is. It can be said that Darkness IS all that is, for with out it, there is NOTHING. Yang, on the other hand, ONLY exists as a PART of a whole. Without its progenitor (Darkness) it has no place in "Creation." Lacking a root in Darkness, the Light becomes a LIE. It is cold, brittle, barren and dead. Is it still Light? Yes, but now it is a FALSE Light, and is CONSUMMED by the awareness that it is OTHER THAN Darkness. Unlike Light united with Darkness, which can be said to prize diversity above all else and Wills toward Diversity (which is the will of Creation), this False Light seeks, and Wills toward, the destruction of Diversity and the pseudo-creation of sameness. In doing so, it is said to be at war with What Is.

Casey: Fascism (the INNER REALITY, not the political ideal), having its genesis in the Light ALONE, is diametrically opposed to the ideals of Satanism. Hence, the fascist ideal has NO PLACE within the Satanic Ideal.

Tim said: . "Of course the assertion made by Magistrate Nadramia in her applaudable speculation of the similarities between the both parties are noted and should be viewed for further historical, relevant data on the research at hand."

Casey: If Magistra Nadramia thinks the two are in ANY WAY similar, Magistra Nadramia is WRONG. See above. Magistra Nadramia also referred to the Dark Force as a "very fascist force." WHAT? What kind of nonsense is that? Magistra Nadramia is talking about politics (which she is not familiar with), economics (which she is not familiar with) and the Dark Force (which she also was not familiar enough with to argue and state what she meant to the Temple of Set not so long ago.) A "fascist force?" Even atoms don't fit that definition. Nor do space and time. The only thing that fits that definition is a tree full of monkeys. The Dark Force in Nature is not even any of the forces known in physics, nor can you use physics to formulate it (you need the 2nd and 3rd "Laws" of Entropy to do that - and that's not even physics). It is not fascist in any sense of the word: IT STANDS ALONE, SOLITARY, UNIQUE and, to date- NOT FULLY UNDERSTOOD! I cite for proof this article on this URL written by P. Marsh and J. Mengele (a Russian neurotoxicologist - and active member of the COS).

http://www.apodion.com/vad/dark/entropy_tech.shtml

Tim mentioned: "In any case the Fascist, AKA Nazi....."

Casey: It has been said before. but I will say it again, the NAZI Party was, politically, a NATIONAL SOCIALIST movement, the German WORKER'S Party. Mussolini was the Fascist.

Tim said: "The Fascists and Nazis politically believed in terminating a weaker race in the case of WWII this was the Jewish Race, who's thought to be a religion in some cases however scientists can now read by gene analysis that is and what is not Jewish."

Casey: Another history lesson: Germans hated Jews because the Jews got the best jobs (they were better qualified). Germans hated Jews because they had a great deal of wealth (they had better jobs, and they worked harder). Germans hated Jews because they were better educated (they were smarter). Germans hated Jews because Germans were stupid, poor and starving. Germans hated Jews because Germans saw the Jews as becoming too powerful and manipulating the course of the German Nation. The cream, in other words, was rising to the top. WHO was the weaker race? And let's not forget the Slavs, also considered sub-human by the Nazi Party. Then there were the homosexuals. Then there were the Gypsies, etc, etc. This is INTERNAL Fascism-"They're different from us....let's kill them."

Tim said: "The best diagnosis they know possible for the stratification that they seek could be found in an ideal level of the most omnipotent political statement; this was Fascism. This Was Nazism."

Casey: That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but based on what I think you mean: Germany HAD stratification BEFORE the Nazis rose up. The Germans wound up on the bottom and they didn't like it. Stratification was NOT what they were looking for. They sought the elimination of stratification via the destruction of everything determined "detrimental" to the German State. (If you think this makes them superior, consider that if a marauding band of baboons were to assault a bunch of humans, they'd inflict a lot of damage. And if you put a gorilla in the ring with a human, the human will lose.)

Tim said: "But, the ideal was founded upon certain magical meanings behind the ancient symbols involved. That, are looked upon as being "Evil" like the Sigil of Baphomet the Swastika was considered to be a very atrocious thing, the meanings though, are different, regardless of Herd Misconceptions."

Casey: The swastika is as old as writing. It was NOT perceived as evil until AFTER Hitler shit all over it.

Casey: Now that the background is out of the way, let's get down to it.

Casey: The COS, first of all, is a CHURCH, not a country; right away we know that we are not dealing with "political theory." All that leaves us with is the manifestation of an inner state in it's members. The irony of Tim's question is that there are INDEED similarities between the COS Fascist faction's INNER Fascism and the Fascism perceived in the NSDAP. The Nazi party was a party OPENLY formed to bolster the self worth of a flagging, LOSING and WEAK people. The INNER Fascism at work in the COS is of the same brand, only its adherents want us to believe that they espouse this doctrine not out of weakness but, rather, out of a position of strength. The Germans of the early 20th century were IN REALITY a beaten down, starving people. The fascist element of the COS is a group JUST as beaten down and JUST as starving; the only difference is that their agony is INTERNAL agony. They are not a nation forced to pay crippling reparations, as was Germany after WWI. They are not a Nation with no National economy to speak of, as was Germany. The fascist faction of the COS, and, indeed, MOST of the LOSERS who espouse Fascism as a way of life do so out of their own INNER feelings of barrenness and lack of worth. They seek to bolster their self worth by identifying with something they perceive as "powerful." Well, FOOLED AGAIN. Fascism is the reaction of the WEAK against domination by the STRONG and ABLE. Hardly a reaction worthy of the "Alien Elite." Or the "Aryan Elite," for that matter. It's a POWER TRIP, pure and simple. Not to mention the hard on they get from jack boots. Gimme a break.

Casey: I still don't understand how ANYONE could make the mistake of thinking that Satanism has ANYTHING in common with Fascism. Does it have anything in common with the COS? ABSOLUTELY. Whiny little nothings who get off on the "elite" bullshit are PRECISELY the kind of people this DRIVEL appeals to. It's like "bait for klippoths." Just advertise that you are an organization of the Elect of God (it doesn't matter which god) or the Alien Elite - it's the same thing.

Casey: For the one millionth time: DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that the COS in ANY WAY defines the term "Satanism." It DOES NOT. That would be like saying "Baptist" defines Christianity. I know some fine Christians. I know some fine members of the COS. It has been my experience, however, that BOTH are dominated by the whiny, shrieking worthless scum of the order. Interesting how they both turn to fascism, whether they are Baptists of COSsers, wouldn't you say?

As Ole said, "The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against life. That is, fascism is a war against life."

Casey: He hit the nail on the head. The Satanism of the COS is predicated on the works of ASL. ASL said that a Satanist was a person who could FEEL the Dark Force in Nature. Fascism has NOTHING of the Darkness within it. How then can it (in LaVeyan terms) be in ANY WAY Satanic?

Casey Ley

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From Ole Wolf (in the COS at the time)

Fascism, if anything, is counter-individualistic save perhaps to the one that rules. What are the odds that you'll be the one that rules? They're less than one in a million, so what kind of fool would ever support fascism? Consider this: if I'm employed, it means I'm working. Although I might not agree with socialist philosophy (at all), if I support socialists, I actually come out stronger because of trade unions, work regulations forced onto employers, etc. As an individual, I gain from being (or at least seeming to be) a socialist. If Satanism represents your gaining personal advantages at the expense of the herd, socialism is more Satanic in deed than fascism!

If anyone told me I'd be bestowed with some advantages just because a governmental system changed to fascism, I'd think that person was a fool. Besides, such a statement is very similar to the Christian persuasion that if you accept the supreme God, you will go to paradise. But you won't get there alive.

--Ole Wolf

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Casey Ley again, citing other respondents (whose words are in quotations):

TJ Said: "Fascism is NOT EVEN of the light (Black FLAME). It's the light ALONE - NO darkness at all."

Casey: See, this has been my problem with this WHOLE discussion. This "faction" keeps getting looked at and talked about on a COMPLETELY outer level...i.e. their politics, their clothing, etc. While some of the things written during this discussion have been both interesting and well said, it's not and never has been, a political question. It, like EVERYTHING else, is an outward manifestation of an inner state of being. I don't care about what someone says their political beliefs are, any more than I care what someone says their "religion" is. All these things are window dressings for the ONLY thing that is real about Anything: BEING.

Casey: Fascism, as a WAY OF LIFE, not a theoretical principle, is DEVOID of Being. How ANYONE could ever mistake it for anything even remotely Satanic is so far beyond me as to inspire a headache.

Casey: Satanism IS Being, Fascism is NON Being. Satanism is that which IS; Fascism is that which STRIVES to BE, but NEVER IS. Satanism is born from an ALL LIVING Darkness, Fascism is the poisonous spawn of a brittle, dead FALSE LIGHT. Satanism is the unfettered JOY of Being, Fascism is the forever-chained DENIAL OF LIFE, and that is REPRESSION.

Casey: I DO NOT understand why/how ANYONE who CLAIMS to be satanic can be confused on this point.

Casey: As to COS Fascists: Doc said that a Satanist is anyone who FEELS the Dark Force in Nature. Does it not follow that anyone who DOES NOT is NOT a Satanist? NO ONE who does feel it is CAPABLE of LIVING as a fascist. Masquerading, sure, especially to save their neck if they live in a fascist society. But BEING a Fascist? IMPOSSIBLE.

Casey: Fascism is the same tired shit all over again: oh LOOK, more klippoths. More sun cult pieces of shit. More of the same "Light Alone" CRAP. Same song, four hundred and fifteenth verse. NOTHING that is lacking in Darkness is Satanic. Fascism has NOTHING of the Darkness in it. ERGO? It IS NOT Satanic. WHERE is the debate in that???? And WHY does it KEEP getting debated EVERY TIME these people show up in a new outfit?

TJ asked: "I'm trying to figure out the "Freudian" connection - is there something about that word? Fasces = Feces they feel like shit so they wannabe Lords over others. They are anal compulsive as hell and totally into the "dictator" thing, which they use to create an overbearingly suffocating and repressive atmosphere. Hitler = Hit Her? Shitler? The fascist faction is ALSO into dominance and submission, sadomasochism not just overtly but also in a very "controlled" = repressed form. They are anal compulsive people."

Casey: No, I don't think it's the word. It's an IMAGE that appeals to pent up pieces of shit that never got off. And THAT IS Freudian.

Ole Wolf said previously to TJ's question: "I don't think there's a "Freudian" thing about fascism in that it sounds like some anal retentive obsession. Fascism goes in lock-step with authoritarian, sexual repression, which may be the "Freudian" part of it. So, try this instead: The cause and result of fascism is fascism. In turn, fascism arises from sexual repression. The cause and result of sexual repression is sexual repression. In turn, sexual repression arises from the inability to live freely. The cause and result of the inability to live freely is the inability to live freely. In turn, the inability to live freely arises from a war against life. The cause of effect of a war against life is a war against life. That is, fascism is a war against life."

Casey: EXACTLY. Somebody explain to me how that can be confused with Satanism?????

Casey: In reality, what happened in Nazi Germany was stratification turned inside out, turned upside down on its head. Superior people, superior in ALL ways that had already risen to the top in what was pretty much a "free market" were beaten down by monkeys. They were considered DEMONIC! Consider that.

--------------------

From Ole to second response from Tim:

Tim said: "Also it must be highly noted the appointed person in power who was a Fascist and had Sexist ideals set forth an out-right ban upon everything that was birth control related due to the indiscriminate fact that at that point in time it was something put out to the effect of: "Women must return under the subjection of man-father or husband-and must recognize therefore her own spiritual, cultural, and economic inferiority."----

Ole: And whether you like it or not, authoritarian rulership REQUIRES subjugation of the female sex who would otherwise tend towards peaceful existence. Sexual oppression-especially against females-is not propaganda against fascism; it is a prerequisite of fascism. Religion is a perfect tool for sexual subjugation and oppression.

Ole: The desire to control sexual activity is a fascist tendency; it is not a question of being a fascist and a sexual idealist "as well."

Ole: Compare with matriarchal societies, where fascistoid concepts are unheard of until patriarchal rulership is introduced... and with that, religion.

Tim said: "The assertion made by the people that we are seeing now, protesting that Doktor LaVey had such ideals,----"

Ole: And they'd have been RIGHT IF Doctor had been promoting fascism. Whenever someone hails fascism to the skies, they're right that THEY have those ideals.

Tim said: "....he had inspired women, at their own objection, to make their own choices, and gave them postulates that bewitch men in their tracks,----"

Ole: Didn't you read The Satanic Witch? It is all about techniques on using Cruxtoid men to obtain what you want as a woman.

Ole: Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly listed techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a "witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

Tim said: "....not that they were of inferior quality but because they were superior in the sense that he admitted that they also had power over him.----"

Ole: True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the TSW sense. The TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of power I'm talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

Tim said: "As far as I have heard or have seen it has not come to my attention that such things are existent.----"

Ole: Some of them are-Doctor wrote TSW. And as soon as someone argues that Doctor was promoting fascist ideals, the same person will also be arguing that Doctor was promoting (in an inner sense) sexual oppression and female subjugation.

Tim said: "And if they are, they are founded upon misconceptions of their very own inferior pseudo-satanic quality,----"

Ole: Yes, and especially upon the misconceptions by those fascistoids that think they agree with Doctor, not those that try to attack the CoS with the "you're fascists" line. At least the latter ones KNOW they want to attack the CoS while the fascistoids provide them with an ample supply of ammo.

--Ole Wolf

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From Faust (Ben Schultz, COS active member)

In answer to the question of is fascism satanic, I would voice a resounding NO!

As everyone knows, "Satan is the first rebel." And it is this image of Satan as the adversary, the questioner, that we, as Satanists, try to emulate.

Those people who claim to be Satanic and preach fascism ALWAYS see themselves as members of the elite group at the top of the social food chain. They seek to dominate others to compensate, most likely, for their own failings in life. They constantly search outside the self for the answers to their woes. They force responsibility for their short comings on a group of people that they perceive to have wronged them. That makes these fascists un-satanic.

I have yet to hear one of these closet Christians say, "We need to set up a government that will force people to do things against their will, assume ownership of their property, and conscript the citizenry to serve in a fight & die for the perceived destiny of those in power. BUT, I don't want to be in that power group. Sign me up for extermination or forced labor camps. I want to be the unarmed soldier serving as cannon fodder in the war against my own people."

It has become a mechanism for survival of the current regime to portray Satanists in Nazi garb to equate these two ideals. They learned a lesson from the cold war that few people did: "When the outer enemy has been vanquished, the citizens seeks the enemy within." ( The current state of our national identity is proof of this.) As soon as the masses stop looking to us as an adversary, they will have nothing to do but focus on those who hold power within our government. Then they will have no choice but to see the real harm the Christian Coalition and other such groups are doing.

For example, gun control. Everyone agrees illegal guns are bad. But the fascist leaders in this country have used this to advocate the restriction of legal weapons.

Ben, Mr_Faust

When Caesar said of Cassius, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." It was not to warn that education was dangerous, but that a lack of knowledge was.

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FASCISM AND THE SO-CALLED OCCULT, BY PHILIP MARSH (Cos Honorary non-member Magister)

Fascism, which is often thought to include the historic National Socialist movement of the German Workers' Party (NSDAP), at least in its latter, deteriorating stages, is a word often used and meant now to include forms of political regime like that of Benito Mussolini of Italy, and Francisco Franco of Spain. Unlike Marxism, fascism involved no clear or specific interpretation of history, nor any systematic interpretation of ideology, which makes commentary upon this subject difficult. In every case of fascism, however, there was a clear negative reaction against socialist and democratic equalitarianism (equal rights as citizens, equal chances for all regardless of gender or race). In general, there was a strong fear, by both fascist and National Socialist leaders, like Adolf Hitler, of revolution, subsequent chaos, anarchy, and general insecurity. Pride and prejudice, exploiting vulgar anti-Semitism, were appealed to by National Socialist and fascist leaders, which is hardly Satanic. In essence, every fascist and National Socialist movement, including that of the NSDAP, has appealed to law, order, and Christian morality, no matter how you look at it. The glorification of the state, and the subordination of the individual to the state, are of its essence as well - again, hardly Satanic. The credo of all forms of fascism is "believe, obey, fight." This is diametrically opposed to the credo of Satanism, which has the exact opposite credo: "doubt, rebel, make love."

There is a false version of Darwinism involved in National Socialist doctrine. This is the idea that an individual bears the genetic imprint of superiority by being a member of a specific race, in particular, the "Aryan" race. I believe there are inherently Satanic individuals, but they, as a group, by no means coincide with members of the so-called Aryan race. LaVey himself, at least part Jew and definitely not Aryan, said that Satanists and Jews have been almost automatically aligned throughout history, so anti-Semitic movements like that of Adolf Hitler's are not likely to be Satanic. Or else LaVey was wrong on this, as I do not think he was.

Undoubtedly the elitist bent of National Socialist movements has captured the imagination of superficial, present-day, American "Satanists." Not only this, but it is known that an inner core of the Thule Gesellchaft (Society) attended a famous historic meeting of Hitler's German Workers' Party to take a look at Hitler. The inner circle of this Thule group did indeed espouse "Satanism" and practice ritualistic "Black Magic." But in reality, these personages were not allied with the dark forces, as was LaVey, but rather were died-in-the-wool proponents of the Theosophy of Madame Blavastsky. I challenge anyone reading this to refute historically what I am saying. Blavatsky was, in fact, an advocate of the forces of light. (Nothing wrong with that.) In fact, the swastika itself, appealing to Blavatsky, to so-called "Satanists" of the Third Reich, and to their modern day aficionados who consider themselves "Satanists," is a symbol of the light, not of the dark, as the pentacle is. Almost any symbol based on four points or four-fold symmetry instead of five is a symbol of cosmos, not of the great dark which, as Goethe's character Mephistopheles said, once was All. Likewise, the well-known lightning bolt of Himmler's SS is a symbol, once again, of the primal light as it came forth from the dark void - but the "Holy of Holies" of a true Satanist - which preceded this light is the Darkness.

There were about forty members of the Thule Gesellschaft who attended the aforesaid meeting of the German Workers' Party. I have investigated most of them. That is why I can challenge readers of this post to attempt to refute me. It will be in vain, and you will only show your own ignorance - not a Satanic quality. Prominent among the attendees of this meeting was Dietrich Eckhardt, an early member of the Thule group, as well as his acquaintance, the so-called Count Heinrich von Sebbetendorf (or Sebbotendorf), the actual founder of the Thule Gesellschaft. The "Count" established it as an offshoot of an anti-Semitic lodge of the ancient Germanenorden. Eckhardt himself found out that this "nobleman's" real name was not Sebbetendorf, but Rudolph Glauer, the son of a locomotive engine-driver from Dresden. Again, nothing wrong with that, but there is something wrong with being a phony. Most un-Satanic. Glauer claimed he had been officially adopted under "Turkish law" by the Count Heinrich von Sebbetendof, and therefore had a right to this title. Eckhardt, for reasons I won't go into here, made no attempt to expose him nor undermine his fake reputation, as he could have. Suffice it to say that Eckhardt did not want to undermine the power and prestige of the Thule Gesellschaft when it was beginning to establish itself in Bavaria. Glauer was influenced, as I said, by Blavatsky's doctrines of Light from her two volume work The Secret Doctrine, but didn't know the difference between dark doctrines and forces vs. light ones. He also studied Sufi meditation and Oriental philosophy, again without knowing the difference. The least that can be said of LaVey is that, however he did so, he seems to have had at least an inkling of the difference.

I have chosen details about Glauer to illustrate what was the case of all of these Thule members. They were not Satanists. Glauer, General Karl Haushofer, and others members simply transposed Blavatsky's descriptions and magical conditions about pre-historical "Atlantis" to the Germanic mythological world of the Eddas, in which the Gods, giants, men, and beasts were engaged in a bloodcurdling struggle for survival. These were age-old legends of ignorant men about Niflheim (the Underworld), Muspellhiem, and Midgard. These I will agree are intriguing and suggestive ideas, but hardly Satanic. Based on all of this, Glauer and other member of this inner group of the Thule Gesellschaft predicted that latent powers slumbering in the "blood" of the Aryan race would unfold in the Twentieth Century under Adolf Hitler. "Supermen" would then appear, they believed, awakening the Germanic people to the glories of their ancient heritage, which had been obliterated by Christianity. (They were right about this systematic and relentless obliteration, but the Germans obliterated it themselves, or one may say that they colonized themselves). They believed these coming Supermen would conquer the world. All of these ideas were extended and refined by Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS, who inveigled and sometimes terrorized a large section of the German academic community into perpetuating these myths of an inherent German racial superiority.

Herman Rauschning, a defected Gauleitier, explained the excitation of Germans by racial ideology as being due to the fact that every German, he said, had "one foot in 'Atlantis' where he seeks a better Fatherland and a better patrimony." Such a quest for betterment of this kind I can commend. But again, this is not Satanic or of the Dark. It is natural, and of the Light. Rauschning's comments on the "great leader" of this failed movement will be particularly enlightening to real Satanists reading this. Rauschning, who met Hitler on numerous occasions, wrote that "Hitler is the reeking miasma of furtive, unnatural sexuality which fills and fouls the atmosphere around him, like an evil emanation. Nothing in his environment is straightforward. Surreptitious relationships, substitutes and symbols, false sentiments and hidden lusts - nothing in this man's surroundings is natural and genuine, nothing has the openness of a natural instinct. 'Oh, if only Hitler knew how it does one good to have a fresh natural girl!' said Forster, another of Hitler's Gauleiters" (quoted from Hitler Speaks, by Hermann Rauschning). With this, Rausching hit on the head the trouble with all of today's bogus "Satanists" who gravitate toward Hitler, the SS, and National Socialism. According to Rauschning, Hitler fantastically enthroned himself, "looking out to eternity," from his mountain eyrie at Barbarossa, a snowbound, glass-walled building nestled in a rocky ravine of the Bavarian mountains. The walls of his "palace" were adorned with nudes of no artistic intention, but instead illustrating the crudest sexual deviations. Christianity had made him what it seeks to make of everyone: someone "smooth between the legs," someone whose sexuality is focused in his brain. A twisted, demented, pathetic creature, utterly broken at the root.

If this is where you are coming from, if sexual perversion of this type has a central place in your life, then, by all means, join the worldwide ranks of National Socialists, but quit pretending that the pentacle stands for this! Let me put it simply: sexual dementia was at the core of Hitler, as it is of all products of Christian society. He, like many of you bogus "Satanists," like Aleister Crowley too, as complete a product of Christianity as anyone, have put this at the heart of your so-called mediumistic and clairvoyant powers. It is the motivation behind every one of your so-called "Satanic" acts. In these acts, you reap vengeance only on yourself, and futilely attempt it on the Christian repressors of your childhood and pubescent sexuality. There is nothing wrong with a love of Teutonic mythology. But that is not what is involved in your so-called fascistic "Satanism."

Instead of Mussolini's "believe, obey, and fight," I advocate, as a Satanist, what Lenin advocated. He told Russian soldiers to stop fighting, to end the war, and to take the guns the Tsar had issued to them and turn them on their own generals. This is truly Satanic. (The Russians did as he said, overthrew the Tsars, and won the Bolshevik Revolution, as they defeated the Nazi "supermen" forty years or so later, killing or capturing four or more Wehrmacht soldiers and killing ten to every kill or capture by the Americans under General Eisenhower.)

When great mutations of the human species finally do occur, building up and adding up to a truly new species whose destiny is to inherit the Earth, eventually annihilating and supplanting everything else, the way Homo sapiens supplanted the Neanderthal, it will not conform in any way to the so-called "visions" the delirious Adolf Hitler had as he lay writhing in torment in his hospital bed from mustard gas poisoning. Take him as your "Fuehrer" if you like. As a real Satanist and admirer of LaVey, I pass.

Perhaps the best the most truly Satanic thing that might be true of many of you "National Socialist Satanists" is what Rene Guenon said of Neo-pagan groups in the era of the Thule Gesellschaft. He suggested they might be, as you the reader might be, unwitting tools of higher demonic powers seeking to unleash untold horrors on mankind. If "demons" and their human demonolators are conjuring you to do this, in which case pulling strings you don't even realize you have, that would explain why you feed off repression, blood and pain. Having had personal acquaintance with various "demons" within the hearts of similarly enamored and demented people, let me tell you that contrary to general opinion, demons love Christians because Christians' minds and lives are built around blood, pain, and sadism: it is the only way they can release themselves from their own repressions; it is their only outlet.

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From Chuck Shaddoway: (COS member or COS friendly for ages - he's an old timer)

The very fact that so many pseudo-Satanists have adopted the Nazi thing just proves that they're not Satanists. They're HERD-types.

"Oh, I'm a Satanist, so I'll shave my head and only wear black, and I'll be nasty to everyone outside my little clique, and that'll make me His Satanic Majesty!" Get a clue!

A true Satanist can be slicker than catshit on linoleum. He can slide inside the herd like a ghost, work his wiles, and have the Herd begging him to slaughter them. He can pick a lady out of a crowd, ask her to dance, and before the music ends, she'll be offering to bear his children. And he (or SHE) is well-versed: in music, literature, finance, politics, humor, and a whole lot more. He's got the answer before the others have thought of the question. He doesn't suffer fools gladly, unless he's about to fleece a willing sheep. He gathers INTERESTING people about him, not a HERD of LOSERS. He has Class, Style, and Finesse. Good looks help, but they're not required...

A Satanist is equally at home on the dance floor or behind enemy lines.

Above all, he's his own person, a lackey of NO ONE...

--Chuck Shaddoway

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From Kaiden Fox (at the time, a COS active member, quit to make his own org)

Ole said: Forcing a dress code onto women (which Doctor didn't-he plainly listed techniques for manipulating broken men, not stating a dress code) is equivalent to forcing women to cover their faces insofar as the natural body isn't accepted. In that sense, there is NO DIFFERENCE between forcing a "witchy" dress code onto females, forcing them to cover their faces, and cutting off their clitorises. That's not necessarily the same as telling them that men can me manipulated if they (the females, not the men) wear sexy shoes, which (hopefully) was what Doctor was doing.

I've seen the Sexy Shoes portrayed as a Mandate. I can't remember which magazine it was in, but I'm pretty sure it was the Black Pun-Kin. Perhaps I'm taking things out of context, because I've only seen one issue. However, the exchange was that one reader wrote in asking if she HAD to dress in high-heals. The answer given was YES, but not on New York sidewalks because that would just kill your feet. I've also seen in print Anton LaVey on record as saying, "If fascism makes men look like men and women look like women, I'm all for it." I know of one person who dresses like a fascist on a regular basis, and I think it makes him look just silly. (In his defense, I will point out that he is the head of our Abuse department, which might explain why it looks like overkill - also, the guy looks just ounces over 100 pounds. When I dress like a fascist, I'm trying to employ the Law of Dominant Mass towards the Command to Look). I think what would make women look like women is returning to a Minoan style of dress.

Ole said: True. And any female has power over any male, but not in the TSW sense. The TSW techniques draw on oppressed instincts while the kind of power I'm talking about is a raw desire to procreate.

On the other hand, the Satanic Witch never has the Caveat that this is a handbook for manipulating Christians. Having said that, it's easy to see WHY one would NOT say that. Tani poured over my own "handbook" for manipulating Christian Women and, given what I know about her, she confirmed that my techniques would probably get just a funny look from someone like her. She even said that the "human mind" as I portrayed it is the mind of a schizophrenic. And my primary source, Richard Bandler, even said the same thing in the book "Frogs into Princes." (I think). Anton LaVey has never, to the best of my knowledge, come out and said outright that Satanists do not think like WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants).

Kaiden Fox

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From Kari Nevala "Bingonoid" (independent at the time, SR now)

I'll write about Sexuality, Indulgence and Nazism

During the Weimar Republic in Germany, before the Nazis got into power, the general climate was somewhat open-minded. Considering the time and location, the people were relatively well in tune with their animal instincts. Many carnal intellectual innovations took place. State repression of different forms of sexuality was rare, and there existed vital sexual sub-cultures. All this would change when the Nazis got into power.

One of the pre-Nazi innovations was the flourishing of sexology-the study of human sexuality. Sexology of the period was personified in one Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld (1868 - 1935), whose motto was "justice through knowledge" (in other words "sociopolitical change through the 'truly occult'"?). Dr. Hirschfeld founded the historical Institute for Sexual Research, first of it's kind, in 1919, and published many pioneering studies on human sexuality. Hirschfeld was very much like Kinsey decades later in USA, who used methods developed by Hirschfeld. Both were persons who displayed, for all to see, the undefiled wisdom of the carnal nature of human existence.

The Nazis saw the very same liberal innovative spirit of the Weimar Republic as the cause for the fall of the German people. The Nazis hated and despised Hirschfeld, his colleagues and their works. Not least because Hirschfeld was also a gay rights activist, and the Nazis saw homosexuality as one of the most sickening things plaguing the German people (despite the fact that a notorious homosexual, Ernst Roehm, got them into power with his Storm Troopers, most of whom were also gay). It's essential to realize that the Nazis didn't hate homosexuality because of eugenic reasons. The main reason, for the Nazis, was that homosexuality, in their eyes, represented the indulgent spirit, the spirit of enjoyment, which they saw as corruptive and the opposite to the Iron Will. Iron Will meant strength by the means of abstinence and compulsion. The Nazis hated the homosexuals, because they were "men with animal instincts." They considered the homosexuals to be seducers, and "rigorous discipline and will power" was thought to be necessary to be able to abstain from falling into indulgence with them. That is the main reason why the Nazis fought against homosexuality-not some eugenic issues. Indulgence was the arch enemy of the Nazis. They wanted to destroy that which they felt attraction to.

This can not be overemphasized to a person of our times who is into Nazi aesthetics. The Nazis were fighting against the carnal aspects of human life in an attempt to return back to "Victorian" Christian values; back to the times when even the legs of pianos had to be covered, so that nobody could even accidentally come to think about something sexual. The Nazis were the Taliban of their times. Men who hated joy. They had that mentality in their hearts, and they created what similar cultures have created through the times. For example the Nazis made laws in which even touching another man would be considered criminal-compare that to the most sickening forms of the Samurai culture, in which touching another person's weapon would be considered to be a crime demanding capital punishment. A culture built on compulsive behavioral norms, adoring abstinence. Hating the carnal nature and the undefiled wisdom.

When the Nazis got into power in 1933, their first target for destruction was the Institute for Sexual Research. It was "closed down" the 6th of June 1933, and the priceless scientific collections and works were "confiscated" (burned at the Opera Square of Berlin). The terror of the 3rd Reich had begun. Once again abstinence lead into burning books. And perhaps once again it was fueled by self-hate, Thanatos: Ernst Roehm, a long time friend of Hitler and the head of the SA in 1933, was a homosexual.

Strength from joy!

Kari Nevala

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From: PJ the Puter Wiz, a/k/a Lucifer-Satan @ on #atheism (staunch independent - SR now)

I think I could sum it up in one paragraph... fascism is the idea of generally a quite klippothic individual ruling over a large number of people, diverting them to his or her will. Satanism, is about following your own will. personal power, not power of the state, not power of one individual over many. The two do not seem compatible and I just don't know how to stretch that out much further than that =)

The fascist wants to control many and bend them, reshape them. Very christian, in fact. In Satanism, you take responsibility and power, and have your own personal moral code and path to follow. You take power yourself, in Satanism, instead of giving it away to a select few.

I just can't help but see the fascist as the schoolyard bully, and the people the bully picked on who grows up and decides to bully everyone else the first chance they get. It's what happens with people who are bullied, often. The moment they're in a position of power, they start to become the bully themselves. And I see fascists as the bullies and the bullies that are created by bullies. They desire to control, to punish everyone for their pain.

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ELITISM, FASCISM, & THE SATANIC WAY OF LIFE, BY BEN SCHULTZ (COS member - he wrote a second whole essay)

I am not sure exactly when this fascist ideology permeated a group of enlightened beings or how we allowed it to slip through the cracks. I am unaware of the origin of this plague on our way of life, but I do know the disease is spreading fast. And, if left unchecked, may destroy our way of life.

Those among you who have yet to truly see the root of these philosophies may not understand my utter disgust with those who preach from this particular pulpit all the while wearing their Baphomet like a "Red Badge of Courage." But to one who has not only dissected the words of the Dark Doctrines and works of Doctor LaVey, but has also taken the time to feel the spirit of these works, it is apparent that one can not be both a Satanist and follow either of these political philosophies. They ARE mutually exclusive conceptualizations!

Our entire belief system is based on the concept of responsibility. We place personal responsibility above all else. We are responsible for our successes as well as our failures. We accept that no supernatural father figure is looking down on us from on high guiding our every move. We believe that we exist merely on our own merit, for good or ill.

To acknowledge anyone as a dictator or superior goes against the very nature of our being. Furthermore, to be acknowledged as superior to another is also against our nature. Some people may disagree, but my arguments are convincing.

First, a dictator exists by the grace of his subjects. That means dictators are dependent on another person or group of persons for their power. This is not the way we are. It is the antithesis of our ideals. It exposes the low self esteem of the person. It is NOT Satanic! It can not be by the very basis of our beliefs. To be dependent on another for our self worth would betray our sense of self, or it betrays the lack of true understanding. This sad excuse for a Satanist would be living in the world of self delusion while claiming to be a member of a group that defies illusion.

Do I mean by this that we are not superior? NO! By this I mean that superiority is not a goal or even a concern for the true follower of the Left Hand Path! We are too busy with the things that concern us! We do not have the time to worry about what others may think of our achievements, projects, or goals.

Which brings us to the real reason these disillusioned few turn to talk of the elite and fascism. They crave power which they themselves are incapable of achieving. The equate self worth with the clout they wield. The fools! They continually search without for what must exist within if it is to exist at all. To hide their own inadequacy they rally other like minded and incompetent people to their infantile cries of superiority, stratification, and elitism. They replace the foundation of responsibility with an attitude of "I can do whatever the hell I please with absolutely no concern for consequence." There is nothing Satanic about their rhetoric. They are not Satanic! Fortunately, they will never understand the true power that freedom and responsibility together can bring. This will be the root of their undoing.

It has been said that a "house divided can not stand." Of this we need not fear. These imbeciles have never been members of our house. They can not destroy it. They admit, by their own actions, that they lack the power.

Ben, Mr. Faust

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I (Tani Jantsang) wrote for Tim at the time, 2000 "A NOTE FROM THE "DEMAGOGUE......:o)"

Meritocracy is NOT the same as hierarchy. Not at all. This is a DANGEROUS misconception that I believe is born in the smothered hearts of people who are presently RAGING against society. (Suggestion: move out of the neighborhood...)

You DO NOT have ANY meritocracy in ANY hierarchy, whether that "-archy" is Monarchy, Oligarchy, Patriarchy or other. NONE. What you have instead is STASIS, static classes, static positions in society, static roles based NOT on what you are or can do, but on WHO you are, who you are related to, who you know, and other such arbitrary rubbish. From generation to generation, or group to group, you have the STATUS QUO. The appearance of stratification in hierarchies are nothing but appearances that have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the MERIT of the individual. I say "most often" because such systems are overthrown and what you get as a result is anarchy and slaughter. Lots of slaughter. Vengeance is sweet.

But here is the trick: meritocracies lead to stratification, and each "strata" that forms in the society AT ANY GIVEN TIME (important), COULD BE looked at as a hierarchy in a very loose way, the loosest of ways - so loose that it's not even a hierarchy - because it's an ever changing hierarchy, it's ALWAYS in motion and never the same. Not only from generation to generation but even within one lifetime, the strata changes. This is a MAJOR difference. This is also how the entire web of life works in real nature. The other is only the way nature is in the minds of those that either desire to make nature what it is not, or those just too stupid to understand the NOT-so-subtle difference.

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From Wookie (person on chatroom satanmuse, from Finland)

"Jederman ist sein eigener Führer!" (Everyone is his own leader!)

Here are a few brief observations and personal opinions which I feel should be taken under consideration on the Satanism - Nazism issue:

I think it was High Priestess Barton who once wrote that getting hysterical at the first sight of a swastika or similar nazi-oriented symbol is unsatanically narrow-minded. I agree: On a ritualistic level it should be "what ever gets you high" for a Satanist. I can, for instance, imagine that a ritual which would include nazi-oriented symbols in order to be enormously effective for a Satanist with a Jewish background: Either to produce feelings of hatred and revenge (this would be beneficial in a destruction ritual) or to produce feelings of submissiveness and being abused (this would benefit a Satanist who wishes to recognize these sort of counterproductive aspects in himself and get rid/make use of them). Furthermore, I feel that this applies to other personal walks of life as well: If one finds a symbol, be it Baphomet, Swastika, Coca Cola's trademark or whatever, meaningful for himself - so be it.

Satanism isn't and it shouldn't be a politically committed movement: A Satanist can find aspects which are analogous with his own, personal, thoughts from any political ideology there is: Communism, Republican, Conservatism.. This is up to what the individual feels best serves his/her goals as a person and as a Satanist. This said, I must stress the fact that, at least in my personal opinion, NONE of this in any way justify a Satanist committing himself to some Neo-nazi-movement or to endorsing fascistic ideology in his personal life. If he does, he isn't a Satanist - he's a nazi and these DO exclude each other: Be that if so desired, a Satanist can utilize aspects of whatever ideology he finds suiting for his satanic endeavors, there are nevertheless some aspects in nazism, as well as in many other political or non-political movements, which are contradictory to the ideology of Satanism and it's principles set forth by Doctor LaVey and the Church of Satan.

Even though I fully accept and endorse such terms as "Alien Elite" and "Social Darwinist" which have been used to describe Satanists and their ideology, I nevertheless strongly feel that this (satanic) type of stratification and elitism is based on MERITOCRACY - which is not the case when it comes to nazism. Nazi-mindset is based on "Aryan superiority" and other ideals which advocate discrimination of individuals of certain ethnic backgrounds regardless of the abilities and personal potential of these individuals. This thought is best elaborated in Magister Peter Gilmore's essay "Satanism: The Feared Religion" in which he concludes: "There are elite individuals from all ethnic backgrounds, and they are embraced by Satanism for the superior beings that they are - creating an uniquely Satanic ethnic."

I think this about says it all: Nazism is a movement for mediocre masses who have a need to feel superior, but who lack the ability to be it - it gives a person a false feeling of being "elite" just by happening to born with a certain skin-color. Satanism, on the other hand, embraces superior individuals who have proven their worth in the ordeal of Life.

Nazis advocate the re-raising of "third Reich" so they could once more start stuffing the "unworthy" to gas-chambers. Satanists declare that every person should have the right and obligation to stand or fall on his own merits and that both rewards (for ability) and punishments (for inability) should come as natural causes of their actions - which would be happening if it were not for the unnatural doctrines of "forgiveness and mercy" set forth by the so-called white light-religions - not in an "artificial way" of passing dictatorial judgements on dubious grounds. Any sensible person should be able to see the huge difference and contradiction between these two movements.

So to encapsulate my personal opinion: There is no need to over-react if some Satanists find nazi-inclined symbols or even some aspects of their ideology worth their time, but there indeed is a need for action from Satanists if the (visible) line between Satanism and Nazism is being, either intentionally or unintentionally, dimmed.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer?

Get real - Jederman ist sein eigener Führer!

Beast wishes,

Wooki

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That's it! That's all that was there on Tim Stewart's website. This is what Peter Gilmore actually SAW up there.

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This below is the email Tim Stewart got from Peter Gilmore, which he showed to the people that helped him:

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:26:36 GMT "Tim Epperhart" <&mrtimothyStewart@hotmail.com> writes:

Peter: Dear Mr. Stewart (Epperhart): I recently was asked by some members to view your new website, specifically the section dealing with your project regarding "fascism."

Peter: Since we (the administration of the Church of Satan and Anton LaVey himself) have long considered this to be a dead issue (we had articles in "The Black Flame" which dealt with this over a course of several years), I wasn't inclined to spend the time. However, I was told that you present erroneous information about the Church of Satan as if it were factual, and that claim did require investigation. I found it to be true. I note that your project essentially consisted of sending out an email letter and then gathering and posting responses. I counted the responses, and they were written by less than twenty individuals. Since the Church of Satan consists of many thousands of members, very few of whom are online, if this was intended to be a comprehensive "survey," it certainly fails. In actuality it is only a reflection of the opinions of online individuals who are in direct contact with you and who chose to respond.

Peter: By any statistical standards, this makes your project meaningless, if it is meant to convey information regarding the Church of Satan.

Peter: You are not an administrator of the Church of Satan, nor are any of the people who responded to you (a number of whom aren't even members of the Church of Satan). So, you personally should have borne such facts in mind when making the broad generalizations in your own introduction and conclusion to the emails which you received in response to your letter. But it is clear that you did not. You assume that you have some knowledge about the Church of Satan at large, its membership and its practices, and this is completely erroneous.

Peter: My general impressions concerning these emails (save for the very sensible response by "Wooki") is that a straw man is being established (the concept that there is some kind of "fascist faction" which has a hand in controlling the Church of Satan) and then knocked down.

Peter: If indeed there is a "fascist faction," neither you nor any of your respondents spent any time in listing the members of this group by name or listing their numbers, nor is any time spent in quoting any of their works which would prove their agenda - which you state to be the intention to force other Church of Satan members to "agree with them or leave the Church of Satan."

Peter: If you cannot prove that a substantial percentage of the membership of the Church of Satan has preached a specific political agenda (namely "fascism") and then demanded that all of the other members must agree with this or leave, then this project has no validity.

Peter: It is simply what it is: a handful of people shooting the breeze about a topic. It is a collection of opinions, and we all know that it is said that "opinions are indeed like assholes - everyone has one...etcetera."

Peter: Let me examine the introduction and conclusion which you wrote to bracket the solicited emails. I have quoted this text directly from your site, and my questions and comments are interpolated and will be enclosed in brackets. My questions are rhetorical and what I state is not intended to fuel debate. My purpose is to make an offer to you and those who think as you do, and you will come across it in due course.

---------------------------------------------------

PROJECT 1

Tim: By: Timothy Stewart Epperhart - "Wolf At Hart" The successes of fascism easily make people lose all perspective and result in their forgetting, or being ignorant of the actual conditions which made the strengthening and the victory of fascism possible.

Peter: Note brackets.

Peter: [This is what is called a "sweeping generalization," as any high school writing teacher would point out. Detailed evidence is required to support such a claim, and unfortunately none is supplied by you or your respondents in all that is to follow. What are the "successes" and "victory" of fascism, particularly when we all know that fascist states have, for the most part, fallen? ]

Tim: Introduction: First of all, I'm going to allow the readers of this document to understand that this project came about from a simple letter and correspondence over E-mail; Initially my intentions were set on making an in depth article with the help of some acquaintances, and in some cases non-acquaintances if that was their choice: And yes, there was choice. Speak up and be heard: or shut up!

Peter: [This reveals your agenda: you DEMAND participation in your project - that people MUST come argue in your "sandbox," and then you dismiss any who don't think it worthy of participation and tell them to be silent. Sounds rather "fascistic" to me. It could be that many people wouldn't think you have the credentials to be capable of handling such a project with the requisite objectivity, let alone the literary and editorial skills needed, and opted out for that reason.]

Tim: Here is the Original Letter: I am going to analyze the "ideal of Fascism" that we see within the Satanic movement at the present time. I asked for both sides and hoped for an historically objective account.

Peter: [You asked whom for both sides? Did you contact any members of the Church of Satan who have claimed to be attempting to make this organization a fascist organization?.....

Tim, I believe you perhaps should have come forward with the information you got from your contact on satannet - the one who KNOWS who they are and who told you some of their names, or just provided them yourself with logs to prove it or whatever else you have. You sure the hell came forth STRONGLY with this - and at that time I thought you were one of them lol!! SOMETHING must have made you write it - and whoever imagines I had A THING to do with it, better screw their heads on tighter. I didn't even know about it. Hell, Valinda knew about it 1 month before I did. MANY did. That would have been interesting if you provided proof. My whole angle on this shit is that there is nothing political going on because these people are political idiots. My whole contention is (and I know this) that their fetish is SEXUAL. That their desire is based on emotional rage as an impetus. They aren't Nazis or fascists. They are idiots.

Peter: .....Essentially, I doubt that you could have, as there aren't any members who are attempting to do this.....

Peter: .....The Church of Satan has always been politically pragmatic - I've said it, LaVey has said it. The Church of Satan does not dictate the politics of its members, and they are (and have always been) free to choose whatever suits their personal needs. For the record, those outside the Church of Satan have, from its inception, accused it of all manner of politics: communism, fascism, anarchism, liberalism, conservatism - and just about anything else you can think of, all of which are mutually exclusive. What IS clear, is that journalists who have an "axe to grind" against the Church of Satan have always accused it of advocating a political system which is one they personally abhor - thus the Church of Satan plays the role of "devil" to them in whatever arena of human thought they wish to explore.]

Tim: The statements made by Magistrate Nadramia in her "speculation on similarities between Fascism and Satanism" are noted and should be viewed for relevance. The URL for that article is or was: http://www.apodion.com/vad/cos/s_n_Nazi.shtml (It is also in "Is Fascism Satanic" on www.geocities.com/satanicreds/

Peter: [This article is still relevant (and was heartily endorsed by Anton LaVey - which doesn't require that you do likewise), and it was interesting to note how some of your respondents supplied their own definitions for fascism - essentially putting a spin on what Magistra Nadramia had said very clearly, then argued against it. More "straw man" tactics, which are among the methodologies used by demagogues.]

Peter: [Some of your respondents did attempt to clarify your error of conflating these terms. That you said this is an example, however, of a very real "herd" definition of these terms. In the 1960's the radical left preached a philosophy of "peace and love" which really boiled down to the concept of leveling everything to being "equal." This "philosophy" championed the abandoning of any rational criteria for evaluation of anything, and the embracing of everything as being of equal value, which thus fostered mediocritization of every level of human cultural endeavor. We are still living in the fallout of this mode of thinking, as the then young people who espoused these ideas have grown to adulthood and are now the "establishment" (those adults whom they considered to be the enemy during the sixties). This "egalitarianism" (for that is what they called it) was manifested in the cultural arena with concepts such as: "Anything can be defined as being art and all such works must be considered to have equal validity."....

Peter: .....Thus, some random splashes on a canvas were considered an equal achievement to the Sistine Chapel, a mud hut was held up as being equivalent to Versailles, and so on. This principle of "indiscrimination" lead to all other fields of achievement. A janitor was considered the equivalent to a physicist, a novelist was now the peer of one who scrawled graffiti on a bathroom wall and so on. Those who opposed this leveling were accused of being "fascists" or "Nazis," without regard for what these terms might have meant in their actual historical origins and practice. After all, it was the mid-sixties, twenty years after the ending of a war that none of these folks were even alive to have experienced. How quickly past orthodoxies are forgotten. The Church of Satan was created in the mid-sixties and stood in contradistinction to these ideas, which were generally defined as being "liberal." .....

Peter: .....From the time of the very foundation of the organization, Anton LaVey and the members of the Church of Satan were appalled at this societal trend, which favored the elimination of concrete criteria for the evaluation of just about anything and instead advocated that any kind of merit was illusory - and thus that the act of evaluation was an "evil" practice. "Discrimination" became a "bad word," when previously it had meant "sound judgment." Well, the Church of Satan never shied away from embracing things which society considered "evil," and thus it championed a rebirth of strict criteria for evaluation of all areas of human endeavor, and quite radically placed the responsibility for this squarely on the shoulders of each individual. Thus, there was no "appeal to authority" for Satanists - each person held the responsibility for being their own authority. For this reason, we were called "fascists" and "Nazis" - NOT because of any advocation of the sociopolitical ends of these historical movements......

Peter: .....Satanists today do not shy away from being called these names for this very same reason. We champion merit and superior achievement in all areas, and are the enemy of enshrined mediocrity. We abhor what we see as a society that is a rampant "mediocracy." The masses (in the sixties as well as of today) don't know what the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" really mean in a historical sense. These are used as epithets against anyone with whom they don't agree. Most frequently they are employed by "politically correct" intellectuals who use "Nazi" and "fascist" in the same manner that Joe McCarthy used the word "communist" and the Christian Inquisitors used the word "witch" - to discredit the validity of the accused's point of view and brand them a "heretic/thought criminal." Because of the continuing decline in the level of education, even amongst those who pursue degrees at major universities, we can expect that there will be no real broad understanding of what the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" really mean. These will simply remain derogatory epithets used against those perceived to be "the bad guys.".....

Peter: .....Satanists are aware of what impact words and images have on the herd, and thus use them to their advantage. It should be clear to anyone who has observed human society that there is an all-pervading interest on the part of the contemporary general public with the Third Reich. This commentary to you would grow to gigantic proportions should I take the time to examine the reasons for this (most of which should be obvious). Anyone with cable television or who happens to visit movie theatres will see that the Nazis are now the standard archetype in entertainment for what the masses deem to be "Evil" - and they are fascinated with this and fetishize it to no end. Do you watch "The History Channel" (whose emblem is a carved, angular letter "H")? We jokingly say that this really stands for "Hitler" not "History" as over 50% of their programming is Third Reich related. Yes, it's a HERD thing.

It should come as no surprise to any Satanist, that certain savvy Satanists who make their living entertaining the masses (like Boyd Rice or Brian Warner) use the public's obsession with this material for their own ends......

Peter: .....Hence both have used symbols and techniques derived from Third Reich spectacles (which were undeniably powerful means for motivating masses of people) for the purpose of stimulating their audiences and thus putting money in their pockets. Is this advocating political fascism? No.]

Tim: ..initially had specific criteria which are notable. The Nazis are well known for their treatment of the Jews in their area, which they exterminated for being "a weaker race." Scientists do acknowledge a similarity in "Jewish People" or Semites, via gene analysis, but such analysis didn't exist during those times; needless to say, the Nazis viewed the Jews not as a religion, but as a race. The best solution the Nazis came up with for so-called stratification, was to adopt the most potent political system at their disposal: Fascism. This was Nazism.

Peter: [In point of fact, "stratification" was not the goal of the German fascists. They sought political power and needed a scapegoat for the economic woes of many people.....

Peter: .....They chose the Jews, since many were economically successful, and galvanized much of the populace into following them through this hatred. They also targeted communists, whom they felt were enemies to their system of National Socialism. Once the Nazis took power, their first order of business was to imprison political enemies, many of whom were communists. These were the people incarcerated in concentration camps, long before any program was established to put Jews in these camps simply because of their being Jewish. In fact, the German government worked with Zionist movements to export Jews to the area now known as Israel, even helping these people to evade British blockades in their quest to emigrate to their ancestral "homeland." The Holocaust happened later, at a time of greater desperation for the Nazi State.]

Peter: [This statement is complete bunk. Which Satanists said this and where?]

Tim: Also influencing them is that the Swastika is looked upon as being "Evil" like the Sigil of Baphomet. The Swastika was considered a very atrocious thing. What the Swastika actually meant in the past has no bearing on any of this, regardless of Herd Misconceptions.

Peter: [The herd¹s misconceptions have EVERYTHING to do with how a Satanist uses symbols to influence the herd. That should be obvious. The folks who run around today and try to reclaim the swastika as a "good" symbol have totally failed to supplant the herd's identification of this as a sign of "ultimate Evil," far more potent to them than the Sigil of Baphomet. Satanists take note of this fact. When dealing with mass consciousness, original meanings are not of any importance, but the current meanings are all important - which was the import of my discussion of the terms "Nazi" and "fascist" above.]

Tim: "Amidst the Hitlerian concept of strength through joy!" -ASL, The Satanic Bible. Indeed, Hitler was no fool when he offered the people freedom on a personal level, but the way that it was done was wrong and is opposed to Church of Satan doctrine.

Peter: [Here is the crux of what is a major misprision that exists in almost all of the people who responded to your project. It is that they identify with the herd, and not the rulers of these projected "idealistic" fascist societies.]

Peter: [Fascism in actuality is a doctrine that requires the submission of individuals to the goals of the state. It is a collectivist philosophy, suppressing individualism, which states that each person should sacrifice himself to an abstract principle, which is treated as a mythologically sacred entity - THE STATE.

Peter: The past supposed "glories" of the state become the sacred icons in what is in actuality a new religion. Fascism is clearly a means for controlling herds (and one that was effective). When this doctrine is placed into practice, there has to be somebody who tells the herd what the needs of THE STATE are to be, since THE STATE is just an abstraction - it does not exist. Here enters the "Ruling Class" - otherwise known as the Nazi Party, The Communist Party, the Khmer Rouge, and so on. These rulers claim to embody THE STATE, and tell the masses what is the will of THE STATE, and they reign much like the ancient priesthoods, who held their power by being the only ones capable of communicating to people the "will of the Gods." These people are a de facto "aristocracy," which uses THE STATE for its raison d'etre, just as the latter day heads of some of the communist states handed down THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE as their excuse for controlling their massed subjects. These rulers are not subject to sacrificing themselves to THE STATE, because they are the ones who, as embodiments of THE STATE, choose who is to be sacrificed (and they don't pick themselves - though sometimes they do pick their cohorts who are getting a bit too cocky). These kinds of rulers now use terms more palatable to our century, whose masses won't buy such old excuses as "the divine right of kings," but their means are identical. Of course, these rulers are often foiled by subsequent "prophets," who convince the masses that they, rather than the current rulers, embody THE STATE, and so counter-revolutions occur and the former leaders are usually dispatched with violence.

Peter: "Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain!" said the glowering face in a fountain of fire (THE STATE/THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE), hoping that Dorothy and crew wouldn't notice who really is pulling the strings. But Toto (the beast) pulled aside the curtain. Now we might begin to see how Satanists factor in to this equation. The Satanist should always be aware of who is really running the situation in which he finds himself. Satanists do not see themselves as being part of the herd and naturally resist any attempts to be forced to live under any regimes that would make them part of the controlled herd. However, Satanists really don't care how the herd is being controlled, so long as they themselves aren't subject to being controlled along with them. If forced by circumstance to be part of such a governmental situation (and I caution the reader to examine how much he really knows about the machinations of his current nation of residence), the clever Satanist would either be the person who pulls the strings, or, more likely, his associate. Being the one behind a "leader" is generally a safer position, as the leader is always a target, while the advisors often survive changes in "top dogs."

Peter: Some Satanists who are "political idealists" might envision a future wherein Satanists are the "man behind the curtain" directing the herd to support their own personal indulgences - the herd sacrificing themselves to a ruling, but necessarily hidden, Satanic "elite." Frankly, I see this as a political pipedream. Running a state would leave little time for personal indulgences and enjoying one's life. In contemporary Western society, the only political factions likely to attempt create a fascistic system (as meant by the original meanings of the terms) are the right-wing Christians (and the film, "The Handmaid's Tale" provides a chilling visualization of this possibility). I think it far more productive to advocate a system which guarantees freedom for the exercise of many points of view (so long as it doesn't require me to pay for wastrels who want a free ride).

Peter: But we in the administration of the Church of Satan do not control the thoughts of our members, so if some of them want to toy with these "political dreams," that is their business. As long as they don't drag our Church into any political agendas, their personal pursuits remain just that: personal.]

Tim: Herd mentality is a sin in CoS doctrine and it is noted: how else would the Nazis be able to exterminate a race? On a personal level? Was this a way for an ideal form of stratification?

Peter: [Did anyone say it was?]

Tim: Is murder stratification, and would these actions be "justified" because they were founded upon a Fascistic point of view?

Peter: [That humans kill one another is a part of the way our species functions. When nations come into conflict with each other, and this escalates beyond economic exchanges, what in peacetime would be termed "murder" then becomes justified in the hands of the military. How the conflicts finally pan out is one of the means for large-scale stratification in our species.]

Tim: E-Mail Observations and information to mrtimothyStewart@hotmail.com I look forward to writing this article, in any case. Thank you for participation. Hail Satan! Hail the Church of Satan! Timothy Stewart

Tim: Stewart's commentary: Now we come to the end where it is necessary to evaluate these responses and fill in the blanks.

Tim: I am sure some of the points raised will hit home with many readers, both those who are members of the CoS and those who are not. Some of what you've read you probably already understood since history is rife with examples of the affects of Fascism and it is fairly easy to see, in those examples, just what kind of people Fascism appeals to.

Peter: [Since multi-level definitions of "fascism" were not explored in this project (you and your respondents missed its "common-parlance" usage and chose to concentrate only on some of its historical definitions), the analyses in the postings on your site concerning what form of attractions/repulsions it may have for certain types of individuals do not even begin to qualify as being exhaustive or even relevant.]

Tim: Regardless of the differences between the "moral foundations" of those Fascists in the past and the present Fascist infection, as I see it, they share the same intentions.

Peter: [It is curious that you use the word "infection" here, yet no effort has been made on your site to demonstrate just what is being infected, by whom, and to what extent.

Peter: So, using this term is an attempt at pushing emotional buttons without justification - not rational argument.]

Tim: That is, to form an "All is One" union or dictatorship at the highest levels in the organization that would trickle down, via brainwashing, and a "toe the line or get out" party line to the rank-and-file.

Peter: [The Church of Satan has never required anything of its members except that they hold the writings of Anton LaVey as their basis for membership in this organization. Members are free to build their own personal viewpoints on this foundation. If people have substantial disagreements with LaVey's work, or wish to promote something else as the basis for Satanism, like the "dark doctrines,".....

Peter: .....then they should not be members and should tender their resignations immediately.

Peter: There is no "brainwashing" in this organization - we don't have the time for such labor intensive activities, which would garner minimal results, and which are counter to our basic principles.

Peter: As from the beginning, we are a cabal of very independent individuals who share a philosophy synthesized by Anton LaVey as our point of commonality. And we will not try to force our members into some kind of lock-step unity in their personal choices for building upon LaVey's foundation. However, one thing I see in common amongst many of the responders to your letter, is that they usually do identify themselves as a self-proclaimed "faction" who center themselves on the ideas of Tani Jantsang, not those of Anton LaVey.

Peter: Even if this is not admitted, any casual observer of the writings of these people makes this very clear.

Peter: And, from their recent activities in chat rooms and on Usenet, it is abundantly apparent that this clique is set on making the Church of Satan a "one true way" organization based on their interpretations of issues of sociology, politics, and biology.

Peter: This "faction" clearly plays "Inquisition" and labels those members of the Church of Satan who disagree with them as "Klippoths".....

Peter: .....(remember, Joe McCarthy and the Inquisitors as mentioned above?), and is now working to make their opinions the basis for the Church of Satan. I represent the administration of the Church of Satan and state that we will not tolerate this attempt at turning our organization into a totalitarian organization whose sole aim is the promotion of the agendas of this small group of individuals. These people followed their own paths in the past, and didn't require that others kowtow to them.

Peter: However, particularly since these folk are active "online," lately their ideas seem less and less based on the work of LaVey, and consequently more and more demanding that all other members of the Church of Satan whom they encounter must agree with them.

Peter: If they find individual members who disagree,.....

Peter: .....they have stated that they will attempt to drive them out. This is not acceptable, as it is not the business of this clique to determine who is or who is not a member of the Church of Satan. They are not administrators of this organization, and they are not arbiters of membership.

Peter: As Dr. LaVey has said, when ice melts, it is called water. So, if this clique has decided that they have a new foundation for their concepts of Satanism (and Tani herself has said there is little of Satanism, by her definition, in the Church of Satan).....

Peter: .....then they are all invited to leave immediately and found their own unique organization.]

Tim: The reader who is paying attention will note the similarity in this (fascist) doctrine and outlook to the early Christian doctrine of "Convert or Die."

Peter: [Essentially this defines the tactics used by the Tani clique (Agree with our way of "correcting" LaVey or be branded a "Klippoth"),.....

Peter: .....NOT the Church of Satan's administration, which accepts a rather diverse set of means derived from LaVey¹s writings.]

Tim: The proponents of this Organizational Fascism

Peter: [Whom you have still failed to identify.]

Tim: cannot practice that doctrine in full in the real world because those in the past that objected to this tyranny bought our freedom from that fate with their blood.

Peter: [This reads like a threat to the straw man of "proponents of Organizational Fascism," that those who disagree with them will do so "with their blood." That is typical rhetorical nonsense, not rational debate - a tactic used so effectively by Dr. Goebbels, I might add.]

Tim: Were it still a valid option, however, the vehemence of the Satanic Fascist faction

Peter: [Some evidence of this "vehemence," please.]

Tim: makes it fairly plain that it would be a method joyously utilized by them to silence the opposition! "You better shut up!" "You better drop this project." "You can leave if you don't like it."

Peter: [Has any member of the administration of the Church of Satan told any of the people who've responded to this project to "shut up"?.....

Peter: .....Has any member of the administration told you to "drop this project"?.....

Peter: .....(Whether any of us thinks that it is a project that has been executed with any skill is another matter, but we generally don't offer our opinions unless asked, as per one of our "Rules of the Earth.") And concerning the corporate entity, which is the Church of Satan, it IS thoroughly within our rights as administrators of the corporation to tell any members that, if they disagree with how we are running the organization, then they SHOULD "leave if they don't like it." We are also empowered to terminate their titles and membership at will. Membership in the Church of Satan does not grant you rights of usage of property which belongs to the corporation, nor does it give you anything beyond what the administration of the corporation chooses to give to you.]

Tim: This doctrinal similarity with the avowed enemies of the Satanic movement in the past, is a large contributing factor to the feeling, on my part and on the part of many, that these so-called Nazi Revisionist Satanists have worn out their welcome. Some still pose the question of whether there is, indeed, a Fascist faction in the CoS.

Peter: [Again, you've presented no evidence whatsoever that there exists a faction of "Nazi Revisionist Satanists" in the Church of Satan, much less that such a mythical faction has any power in the organization.]

Tim: What of stratification? Would that not be a definition of what is going on within the organization?

Peter: [Stratification is a term coined by Anton LaVey to signify how nature allows everything to "seek its own level." It is not something to be advocated - it happens of its own accord. In human social situations there are many strata - though here in the West for years this was (mistakenly) thought to be invalid because "democracy" supposedly dissolved the old formal class structures. In reality, classes founded on economic status were the new "strata," though some mobility is offered when individuals who were entrepreneurs garnered enough wealth to move out of their original stratum. In the past, there were still issues for these "upwardly mobile" individuals concerning their social status since families coming from "old money" were associated with "cultured aristocracy" while their "new money" was pegged as being part of "crass materialism" (and there was some evidence to support these stereotypes). And stratification is always happening in the organization, as such cannot be avoided.]

Tim: It is an interesting question. I would ask the reader to keep the following point in mind as he/she ponders the question of stratification: the goal of Fascism is "sameness." In no way does "sameness" equate with stratification.

Peter: [The goal of fascism is to weld a group of people together towards a common goal - support of a state - which itself is an illusion created by the rulers of that state. The "sameness" is the common purpose, and such has always been the means for totalitarians whether they are called fascists, or clergy, or commissars. This has nothing ostensibly to do with stratification, which ideally is the recognition of natural differences depending upon merit, but can be seen practically in how well the clever "know the ropes" of the system in which they live. People rise and fall, or remain static in their society. Like seeks like. As Satanists, we embrace the principle that there are those who naturally are leaders, and those who are followers. There are masters and there are slaves, and quite a few shades in between. It is a delusion amongst many who embrace Satanism that by adopting this philosophy, they are immediately "masters," and are thus now equal to all of the other "masters." This is an error. Satanists know that those who embrace Satanism treat themselves as their own Gods - making the satisfaction of their individual selves the standard of value for their lives. However, only the naïve would think that amongst these self-acknowledged Satanists that everyone is automatically in some kind of "equivalent brotherhood" now that they are calling themselves "Satanists." Nothing could be further from reality. Embracing Satanism does not automatically give you advanced creative skills, a lifetime of hard-won experience, or wisdom garnered from studying the wealth of information now at our fingertips. You may be "your own god" but you don't have instant "godhood" in the realm of human endeavor - that is something only gained through the refined cultivation of whatever talents are yours by nature. Satanism can be a great "launching pad" for those who are realists, to see where they stand in their level of personal achievement, and to rationally decide how to advance themselves in whatever manner they choose (or not to advance themselves, but to enjoy whatever level they wish to have). Amongst Satanists, there are some who embrace the principles of this philosophy and do not feel that they have the capabilities to make their own horizons, as Nietzsche defined a characteristic of his superior humans. These honest individuals, under Satanism, have the choice to personally (and wisely) select their master, and thus to guarantee that they will get the guidance they desire which will be beneficial to themselves (unlike unwilling slaves, they are also free to switch masters should they so choose). Few are honest enough about themselves to make such a decision. We are thus confronted with a spectacle of "Satanists" who are all failing the "leaky inner tube test." They puff themselves up with claims of godhood, when they are, by any objective standards, really just a bunch of low-grade buffoons who can't produce anything on a level that could be deemed professional (as low as many standards for professionalism are these days). Would that they could honestly look into the mirror and see themselves for who they really are, and that those who aren't "leaders and innovators" should stop being pretenders to those thrones. They'd be happier and the fringes of Satanism would look less ridiculous. However, we do understand the "nature of the human beast" and thus will do our best to usher these pretentious fools out of the door of the Church of Satan.]

Tim: The members of this Fascist faction would have us believe that by belonging to their faction they are demonstrating some kind of "personal power." In their eyes, the identification with a political doctrine and people that sought the elimination of a supposedly "weaker race" invests them with some feeling of superiority, and they take this to be Satanic.

Peter: [You have offered no evidence for such a faction in the Church of Satan using this methodology. This is, however, an accurate description of many white supremacists, and those folk are currently in short supply amongst our membership. I suggest that this must have something to do with Anton LaVey's personal Jewish roots, as well as the fact that we don't embrace racism since it is collectivist thinking and thus not compatible with the individualist basis for the philosophy of the Church of Satan.]

Tim: Self-delusion is never a Satanic value,

Peter: [You got that one right!]

Tim: and self-deluded they are.

Peter: [I'd venture to call this "projection."]

Tim: Those who posses the "personal power" these would-be Fascists lust after, feel no need to adopt postures designed to showcase said power; only the posers feel the need to pose. This is easily proven by a simple survey of those who practiced political Fascism in the past; it has never been a political movement of the strong.

Peter: [Real Satanists have confidence and "personal power" as they determine the course of their lives, to whatever extent is possible in the society in which they live. There are times when masochists are attracted to Satanists, and these folk antagonize the Satanist in an attempt to goad them into exercising their real power (not a postured power). The Satanist, as LaVey explained, is an Epicurean Sadist, and when such masochists come-a-calling, the Satanist often says "No" to the symbolic requests for a "beating," thus turning the masochist's sought after eustress into distress. But the Satanist's option to say "yes" also exists, and he can then provide the masochist with the "beating" being requested, only if it gives the Satanist satisfaction. That some Satanists use fascist-related imagery to manipulate the herd has nothing to do with their own sense of efficacy. They don't need it to be bolstered via symbols of any sort. It is simply a matter of pushing buttons in the mass (or individual) consciousness for their own ends - as was described above concerning Boyd Rice and Brian Warner. We all know from history that the real fascist movements fell from power. BUT, only a fool would ignore the continued power of their iconography over the popular consciousness. Hence, you don't see any Satanists advocating neo-fascist political movements - which are currently the purview of those who feel they have no power over their lives and are looking for scapegoats to blame for this powerlessness. The neo-Nazis are generally powerless white folk, who want to try to do what Hitler did in the past. They are clinging to a sunken ship. Real fascists today use Jesus and Christian moral righteousness to make their way to power, blaming those who oppose their morality for the distress their members feel. Their scapegoats are chosen using their own morality and faith as the criteria. Satanists, for the most part, clearly oppose Christian concepts of morality and would also oppose the success of such movements (unless, perhaps, they have the concession for selling Christian tchotchkes!).]

Tim: An interesting aside is that these people are idolizing a system of thought and practice that would see them as its first victims. No genuine political Fascist would "suffer a Satanist to live."

Peter: [This is correct, in as much as I've said above, that the only forces poised to effectively create a fascist state in the current Western world are those motivated by the right-wing Christian coalition. They'd love a theocracy, but not one dominated by the Vatican as was the last such political state. As said above, some "politically idealist" Satanists might advocate a very different kind of fascism, wherein the goals of the state are defined by Satanists, and the herd follows them (though this is really quite a "pie-in-the-sky" form of idealism which I find incompatible with the essential pragmatism of Satanism). And to reiterate what I said above, if some Satanists want to satisfy themselves with such dreams, they may, so long as they don't identify them with the aims of the Church of Satan, which are emphatically not political, nor are they idealistic.]

Tim: The political and real ideal of Satanism was set forth over 200 years ago and is rooted in the concept of Freedom. Specific examples of those Freedoms were built into the Constitution of the United States: freedom of speech, religion, the press, and assembly and petition.

Peter: [We Satanists tend to define the United States as the world's first "Satanic Republic."

Peter: But you should note that the "founding fathers" did not originally grant freedom to everyone - it was thought to be a "right" only for those whom they deemed worthy and capable of intelligent ability to exercise such freedoms - which originally excluded people such as slaves and women. Thus, they weren't giving everyone equality, but were advocating freedom for people whom they defined as equals in ability and capability, an important distinction that has been lost on many who want to interpret their wisely constructed governmental structure as being "egalitarian."]

Tim: Are we to accept any less from an organization, specifically a Satanic one that supposedly holds the Self sacred, than we demand from our government? I think not!

Peter: [The Church of Satan is not a political state, but a corporation, and does not pretend to operate as does the United States government. In practice, we who administer the organization do as Anton LaVey mandated - we seek out the assistance of individuals of superior ability to assist in our goal, which is the dissemination of the philosophy synthesized by Anton LaVey. This corporation is NOT an autonomous collective, nor is it a republic or a democracy, and the members have no final say in how it is run. The members may state their opinions (and should do so, according to one of our "Rules of the Earth," only when we solicit them). But we who run this show are under no obligation to act in any way other than as we see fit. During his life, Anton LaVey was the bottom line for decisions concerning how the Church of Satan was run. As a member of his Council of Nine for many years, he often sought my view on matters of import, but he always made his own final decisions and took the responsibility for them. He picked some of us to carry on this responsibility, and to do so with the same authority which he wielded. We do not claim to be doing otherwise, and if people have joined us under the illusion that they will share in the running of this corporation simply by paying $100, then they have deluded themselves and are invited to tender their resignations immediately.]

Tim: Two hundred years ago, a group of people dedicated to "Nature's god" looked at the tyranny that they were forced to live with and decided that such tyranny was no longer to be tolerated or accepted. They pledged themselves, at the cost of "their lives, fortunes and sacred honor," to freedom from the tyranny of the "Christian King of Great Britain." The government they formed in the midst of Revolution was built on principles Satanists claim as their own: Liberty, Equity and Unity. Liberty: Do as Thou Wilt. Equity: all have an equal right to Liberty. Unity: those who practice the principles of Liberty and Equity come together to preserve them, wherever and whenever they are threatened.

Peter: [Dealt with above - they deemed a select group capable of exercising these freedoms.]

Tim: Again, the reader who is paying attention will note that nowhere in that Satanic ideal will you find anything of the Fascist ideal. Indeed, the two are anathema to each other. [Depending upon how one defines each of these ideals - which you treat as absolutes, but which are not.]

Tim: On an ironic note, it is that very freedom and liberalism that the Fascist faction finds so abhorrent, that allows the Satanic organization that they infect to exist! "All religions are equal under the law. The State should not interfere." Liberals say this.

Peter: [If one is not a member of the "ruling class," but is actually part of a minority faction in a pluralistic society, then advocating that "everyone be treated equally under the law" may guarantee that you will have a maximum amount of personal freedom (if there aren¹t other "power factors" at work - like wealth). Of course the amount of freedom depends upon the laws of the society in which one lives and we recognize that special interest groups often jostle to get more of the "pie" via handouts and privileges established via state mechanisms) As an aside, Satanists know that there are no "natural rights" as the concept of rights requires someone or something to be doling them out, and in the past this is usually considered to be some God. The only "rights" one has are those given by the laws of the governmental structure under which you live, and ultimately, even these devolve into what you may attain for yourself using whatever personal power you might have. That is why the rich get away with so much more, as their wealth gives them power and hence, "more rights" in a society ruled by lawyers and not justice. However, if you belonged to the "ruling class" you might have a very different perspective. It is true that self-identified Satanists are currently as I described above, a minority in a pluralistic society. But what if they achieved a position of being the "ruling class"? How would clever self-declared Satanists run a government? What would they advocate? How would they control the masses? This could be a fine question which could be dealt with in a novel of speculative fiction, as it is not likely to happen in reality. But, we do know that the people who really understand how to exercise power on the highest of human levels, regardless of whatever philosophy they spew as their cover, are actually maintaining their power by behaving in accordance with the true nature of the human species, and are thus de facto Satanists.]

Tim: It can be seen that the ideals of the Fascist have nothing in common with the ideals of the Satanist, yet here we have a Fascist faction infecting a Satanic organization.

Peter: [No, it is certainly not true that we have a "Fascist faction infecting" our Church of Satan. You assert this as fact without offering any concrete evidence.]

Tim: What is to be done? The members must either take back the organization, or they must accept the fact that their organization has been usurped and conform to the new ideology for conform these Fascists surely try to make you do! Or they separate themselves and form a new faction. Or they walk away from the public movement all together. The question I put to the reader is this: which action is the correct action?

Peter: [It is not the business of the administrators to attempt to argue you and many of your respondents to this project out of their misprision regarding this false contention that there is a faction of fascists which has usurped the Church of Satan. You are wrong. Perhaps now you might be seeing that you¹ve made an error in your assertions. But, if your self-proclaimed "anti-fascism clique" (the only "faction" which we administrators see).....

Peter: .....feels strongly enough in their belief of this fiction, then we invite all of you to send in your resignations immediately (please use the San Diego PO Box so that we can close your files with utmost efficiency). You are advocating that members of the Church of Satan "take back" a corporation which does not belong to them.

Peter: That sort of "coup" is not possible, and those who advocate such will not be tolerated as members by this administration. You are hereby advised to immediately follow your own advice: separate yourselves and form a "new faction." Your "one true way" attempt to force the entire membership of the Church of Satan to conform to your opinions is not welcome. It is ironic that throughout history this has always been the cry of those who want to establish their own tyranny - the claim to advocate "liberation," which actually paves the way towards establishing a hegemony which favors their own special interests. Remember Robespierre? Probably not, else some perspective would have crept into this "project." So, if any of you has the "courage of your convictions" we should expect to see your departure, as you cannot change our methods, which we continue to use exactly as Anton LaVey mandated we should.

Peter: Additionally, I found it amusing that this whole "project" is spent railing against the "evils" of fascism. When viewed in a broader perspective, it simply smacks of jumping on the "politically correct" bandwagon - "We may be Satanists, but we aren't fascists - heavens no!"

Peter: Such is the usual course of action for those who can't bear to be without a "goodguy badge." And, as Dr. LaVey pointed out, all wearers of goodguy badges need an audience - hence the "project" satisfies this dictum.

Tim: Your concluding paragraph above has the tenor, if not the literary skills, of missives I recall reading which date from 1975. They were written by a self-righteous Michael Aquino who had convinced himself that the Church of Satan had sold-out on its principles. LaVey pointed out to him that he really didn't understand those principles in the first place and really didn¹t understand how the organization as a whole was being run. I am now saying the same to you and those who share your delusion. In some of the forwarded email exchanges from the "Tani-clique" preceding this "project," I noted a railing against the concept of hierarchy in the Church of Satan - redefining it into something non-natural and then shooting it down (the same tactic as is used in this "fascism project").

Peter: The Church of Satan has a natural hierarchy, wherein titles are granted by its administration on the basis of merit. But these titles aren't "frozen." If someone screws up and lets us down, their title, and even their membership, may be revoked. There are currently members who have titles, including Magisters and Magistras, whom the Council has decided have been a disgrace to these titles, abusing these tokens of esteem and using them to browbeat other members, or as convincers for specious contentions. While we are patient and generally trust that our original estimation of these people may again prove to be their norm, if such does not happen speedily, then we will not hesitate to bring to an end these members¹ affiliation with the Church of Satan.

Peter: And if anyone doubts that what we are doing is not as LaVey planned, we can offer evidence concerning protocols for this Church from its very earliest of days which I must admit we've actually been fairly lax in maintaining amongst the rabble of our membership online. Recall that LaVey specified in "The Cloven Hoof" that one of the ways for getting ahead in the Church of Satan was termed "pleasing the boss." As I¹ve seen in some email exchanges from this clique, that last word seems to have bothered some of you. I would posit that there were some less-than-positive employment situations in the past for those who feel this way. LaVey did see himself as the head of his Church, though this does not mean that this position meant anything more or less than it could in a group whose members join and leave voluntarily. He expected his members and appointed representatives to instinctually know the boundaries between "Church business," and the personal "life matters" that always remained up to each individual. Those who fail to be able to make this distinction will be called to task. In matters of their own lives, Church of Satan members have complete sovereignty - they are their own bosses (to paraphrase a current pop tune lyric, "We ain't the boss of thee"). Members of the Church of Satan have always been expected to treat each other as "ladies and gentlemen."

Peter: Additionally, those who work at administering the organization ARE part of a corporate hierarchy, and they are expected to act accordingly. That includes people who are granted the privilege of representing the Church of Satan - it comes with specific responsibilities, and if these are not willingly accepted, then the privilege may honorably be refused. Once accepted, if these responsibilities are abused, then the position is revoked. Over the course of the history of our Church, there have often been times when people had to lay down their titles as they could not continue to honor the responsibilities which came with them. Did one of our "founding fathers," General George Washington, confer with all of his soldiers before he made tactical decisions? No. He consulted with his hand-picked trusted advisors, then made his choice based on his own evaluations of the facts and the opinions he received by request. And he expected adherence to his decisions about this situation in which all were voluntarily involved. That is the natural way an organized meritocratic group (which seeks to attain a common goal) works. It is not anarchic, and the leader (boss) does not waste time soliciting the thoughts of all involved - only the ideas of those who count in his estimation. That is how LaVey ran the Church of Satan, and that is how we continue to run the Church of Satan. If any of you are peeved because you haven't earned a place amongst those whose opinions count, you only have yourselves to blame.

Peter: For the edification of those who are "anti-hierarchy," we include an excerpt from "The Cloven Hoof" which delineated precisely how it was expected that Church of Satan members should deal with each other. LaVey promoted this ideal, and we are certain that he would be ashamed if he could witness the sorry spectacle we've had the misfortune of viewing as it takes place in chat rooms and on Usenet.

Peter: Hail Satan!

Magister Peter H. Gilmore For High Priestess Barton and the rest of the Council of Nine

********************

Now, I have to wonder - what the hell is he talking about when he brings up a "Tani Clique"? Does he mean the independents? The independents are the ones staunchly against any hierarchies. At the time Gilmore wrote this, Tim saw me (Tani) as part of the hierarchy, even if I didn't quite behave like that. I was friendly. I was able to get essays for him from people when I mentioned he wanted them. Keep in mind that they sent these essays to Tim - and Tim had his hired webmaster format them and put them on his own website! I think Peter Gilmore's reaction is absolutely insane, even paranoid and delusional! Of course, one might see the reason for his reaction on hindsight: he knew exactly who those fascists within the COS were! How could he not know? Peggy (Peter's wife) certainly knew about fascists in their organization because she wrote an essay aimed at those in the COS who were calling it a "plague." She did not write that essay for or to ANY of the people who wrote essays for Tim!

********************

This piece below is the piece that was edited out of his fascism project - it was also posted to alt.satanism:

The Beasts

As the dawn falls and the dusk settles into the dimmed fog, the beast has again awoke from his slum to embrace the night and once again see what awaits him beyond the green horizon, envision if you will, other beasts scattered about, whos intentions are preying on their own species for the sake of falsified superiority, stratification, and if they are lucky a place in Hierarchy: All this not for arguments sake, but a contest, a race to the top: the beast takes a look around and shakes his head at what his own kind has created, he gets the blame; for it is that title that which is long "misunderstood" how could something so bound by nature be to blame for natures fury, in all her might stratification is not a waste, a disposal, nor is it there to wipe plagues off the earths atmosphere, has this species been of plague in its own right? It is often times said that, in all history this race, the beasts have never got along, that is not the problem: the problem is, in fact, in theory, and throughout histories teachings it is bad enough when the others prey about on these creatures, with the help of their own; this is not survival of the fittest, this is war on the self, self denial, self-deceit. The question that arouses the ears of many is unification in order for the new millineum: No. However, the time has come to allow the beast to manifest itself into something that could actually survive through the ages- and even perhaps They, the faction of the ones that waged war on their own kind long ago, and in the process eliminated the lives of that of the beasts.

Anton Szandor LaVey often stated that if you have to ask to be something, then your probally not qualified. I've never asked, I've never became: I am. What I am is a Satanist, I am a beast by nature, a Wolf at Hart. For it was the self destructive beasts that brought me to realize the folly in those that would destroy me, in attempt to have themselves "Climb" their own way into "becoming" something they are not: the pretentiousness reigns supreme in their ranks.

But, we still live on, for every second to minute, minute to hour, hour to day, day to month, month to year, in a species that dictates others by the same logic it was used to dictate their own; haven't they ever learned the lesson, the race is nature in its own right, its flawless, it doesn't know mistake. If they, the persecuted are a mistake, then everything is a mistake, the other beasts whom he seen about in the jungle are mistakes; it is their own fault. They've created this mess, and it is time for revival.

"Iron Handed, Death Defiant, Mighty-Minded!"

Timothy Stewart Student, Satanic Combat Sciences

********************

Now, the above, all of it including possibly this essay "The Beasts," which was edited out due to irrelevance, is what Peter Gilmore had to have seen, there can be absooutely no doubt about it - that is what was up on Tim Stewart's website and what Tim Stewart posted on the COS bulletin board and on alt.satanism quite a few times.

So, THAT is what Peter Gilmore is responding to Tim about and reacting to. I personally fail to see why anyone would over react to it that way, unless they were on the extreme defensive.

If Peggy Nadramia sees the anti-fascists "over reacting" to the fascist ideal SHE is talking about in the COS and ok-ing, - then why would anyone react to Tim's project when, as everyone else understod it, it had to do with ALL Satanism, not just one organization. Certainly, that's what those essays prove everyone thought.

Les Masters, Tim's lover, insists that Tim's actual intent was to go after the fascists in ONE organization, the COS. But as it is clear from the essays people wrote and from email answers Tim Stewart got, including my answers to him, no one else thought it meant that at all.

********************

Two more essays I found for Tim's Project but things took another turn by this time due to his not paying the webmaster. These essays are now here:

sat-fasc-014.html

sat-fasc-016.html

Jeff Gerber replied to one of the pro-Fascist types in the CoS and gave this to Tim:
sat-fasc-0110.html

And I wrote another one for Tim:
sat-fasc-019.html

All of these essays - and a lot more can now be seen on the SR website at this url:

sat-fasc.html

End of story, there is nothing more to it - except perhaps a few mentions? Yes, a few mentions would do.

********************

Please note that it was Ygraine Gidney that got Gilmore to go look at Tim Stewart's project. Need any more be said? No. Nothing more needs to be said. Gilmore flipped out and went into reams of denial in his "large email to Tim," because he knew damned well what was in his own organization - and he had to have known damned well WHO IT WAS that asked him to nose into Tim's Project - the wife of the man that wrote the ZIEG HEIL song, the woman with her Auschwitz Dancers who Oz, an African American Temple of Set member, referred to as a blatant racist when Ygraine was in the Temple of Set. Both Ygraine and William Gidney joined the ToSet when Anton LaVey kicked William Gidney out of the COS. Peter Gilmore reinstated him and Ygraine into the COS and gave them Priesthoods. Next, the abuse came out and he ended up in jail for child molestation.

Please note that Magister Jeff Nagy was "Liz Dictator" and liked to throw his weight around openly bitching and moaning about how the satannet chatroom no longer had that fascist feel to it. This is what Tim ran head on into.

Here is a log and a trace of just who Liz Dictator is, and here, in this "Private Message" given to Sir Chaos by "Iron Will" of the COS - we get to find out who more fascists are in the Church of Satan - and this was a private message, no one was joking:

"trocar" was known to be Jeff Nagy. "BabyE" was well known to be Nagy's wife, or Nagy himself on the same computer. "Liz Dictator" is Jeff Nagy

<tSNBot> SEEN-quit:
trocar(Snak@usr59-dialup230.mix1.Sacramento.cw.net) left channel 23
days, 12 hours, 5 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your
misery!).

<tSNBot> SEEN-quit: BabyE(Snak@209.162.105.79) left channel 23
days, 21 hours, 10 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your
misery!).

<tSNBot> SEEN-quit: LizDictator(LizD@AC981B9C.ipt.aol.com) left
channel 11 hours, 36 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your
misery!).

Sir Chaos wrote: "Tani, I swear I have seen trocar at AC981B9C. My IP program identified it."

Sir Chaos was correct! Why did Iron Will hand Sir Chaos private-message logs of himself and what he knew to be a "higher up" to Sir Chaos, a mere Active Member? Because it was pretty well known that Sir Chaos was "helping Magistra Tani get proof of this kind of thing for Peggy Nadramia - who asked for hard proof."

Session Start: Sun May 28 03:45:02 2000 [03:45]
Session Ident: LizDictator (LizD@AC981B9C.ipt.aol.com) [03:45]
LizDictator: I find it amazing when folks do not know who you are in here, how terrible they treat you...and these same folks are the ones who rant and rave about that very same treatment they supposedly recevied from Rev. S. Terribly hypocritical on their part. If they only knew... [03:50]
LizDictator: if I told you who I was, how far beyond your own eyes would it go? [03:50]
LizDictator: would you be obligated to pass on the info to Miss Janstang? or anyone else? [03:51]
IronWill: well youve made some very storng accusations of an official no less and just for the record the bot records eveything in the room and can be passed on to who ever needs it [03:51]
LizDictator: does the bot see pm's? [03:51]
LizDictator: and yes I have made accusations [03:52]
LizDictator: and who says I am not an official myself? [03:54]
LizDictator: you must be in pm's with a lot of folks, I will leave you be [03:55]
LizDictator: okay Dark Mist, Secret Agent Man...get back to me whenever you get a moment [03:55]
IronWill: no i was looking over a site [03:55]
LizDictator: no problem [03:57]
IronWill: and if your an official i would think it wouldnt be good for other people poking around to see this such a thing and i would think that you two would find a way to deal with the problem at hand it does look good on the room and me being an op ive been givin a job of at least keeping some peace the most as possible [03:57]
LizDictator: no problem, peace is at hand [03:57]
IronWill: no the bot doesnt see pms [03:58]
LizDictator: I just do not dig the communist vibe [03:58]
IronWill: well all politicval views are welcome here myself im a facist but i dont attck her for it [03:59]
LizDictator: and NKVD has hurt many a good people in here, I have that proof but in the overall scope of the COS it is of little importance [03:59]
IronWill: nor do i attack a liberal or a repulican [03:59]
IronWill: politics is like religious views its all preference anyway [04:00]
LizDictator: my problem is that I got along with folks in here swell until they adopted her communism dealy...and I am a dyed in the wool fascist, just like my buddy Rev Anthony, no huge secret [04:00]
IronWill: so some of us have gotten into a facism and strong over the weak rant its just pysco drama nothing more [04:01]
LizDictator: agreed [04:01]
IronWill: so you know rev _Anthony hum [04:01]
LizDictator: and I apologize for bashing her on your watch. Sice you are in no official position it puts you in a tough place and for that I apologize [04:02]
LizDictator: and yes, I know KS [04:02]
IronWill: well the online reps are there to deal with such things [04:02]
LizDictator: yep [04:02]
IronWill: i have no authority over officials [04:02]
LizDictator: I know, that is why I aplogize :) [04:03]
LizDictator: anyhow, good evening...I must get some sleep, take care... [04:03]
IronWill: but you need to verifie who you are to Rev_Ventrue at least so the ops now who is who we have to keep the peace and theres no way to do that when someon says there someone and know way to proove it [04:04]

--------------------

The fact of the matter is, I never discussed poltics of any kind in their chat room, a chat room I hardly even went to (I made my own). I talked quite a bit in PM with nick DrJosephMengele who I knew was in reality a Russian neurotoxicologist (no joke - verified!) The only other person who knew this about him was Jason Yuschenko! When the Nagys tried to drag me into a political conversation, I ended up explaining what National Socialism was in contrast to Fascism. Dr. Joe said he once had to explain to Mrs. Nagy what an "Aryan" was. I didn't know enough about real Communism to say anything about it to them - and didn't.

********************

Finally, due to the over-reaction of Gilmore, using his clout against a man he knew would cringe, due to the hysterics of some of the other members, and due to the quality of Tim himself, the obeying little cringing coward, I, Tani Jantsang, wrote this letter to Barton.

I had previous to this sent her the trashings and exposings I did to these people in the COS. Note that at the time I wrote this, I still had the "paper with the Mag title" filed neatly in a draw with two other high titles I got handed by two other Satanic organizations. I never used any of these titles. Note also that I'm not saying that ALL orgs can't use our stuff with permission. I'm specifically saying here that the COS can not use our stuff. Today, quite a few orgs use our stuff.

In September of 2000 the woman (Barton) sent me a long-winded rambling letter ("I'm so hurt," "I was so deceived," "I trusted you," "Michael Aquino," blah blah blah) revoking the Mag title. HA! Like, uh, no shit. Needless to say, the paper is still in the drawer with the other two unused titles. One may choose to read the facts here on The Hoolah Made Over Titles.

For some of the letters I got from LaVey and Barton, see

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